The CLF has changed over the years to the VW Racing Forum

[John Palmer]

When I started to read the CLF some years ago it was mostly questions about "could you really run 94mm cylinders on the street" and "what temperature was too hot to run your oil on the street".

But lately it's really "hard core" race questions like, Wheelie bar mounts, Interior tin work, Race fuel dealer locations, 86 stroke raised roof decks, Turbos and long rod questions, Dyno pull questions, Parachute options, Sponsership news, Wasegate sizes, Trailers and transporting, PRA questions, Dog box (Pro-ring'd) transmissions, Ladder bars, Chassis certification, 3" narrowed axles, Valve cover drains.  You get the idea.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a "good or bad" thing as we have also changed during time into more of a race only use of our car.  Just wondering how many others have noticed the CLF change in direction.  Are getting more new people involved into our hobby on the street side or have more of the "old timers" just gone racing? 

[rocket ron]

Maybe the cal look and high-performance sections should be separated. Just a thought

[Zach Gomulka]

I think the basics are still touched on every now and then. If there was a constant barrage of questions like "will 94s work on the street", I would have left years ago I think the members are just building faster cars now!

[garyj]

Yeh, John...I've been here since somewhere around DAY#1 and there has been a notable switch to the "high performance" side (even for the newer and younger members). It's probably just the growth in membership that has helped contribute to the change(?). There have been some real big-time people who have visited here and just that, in itself, has been a push toward the performance end of the conversations.

[jimr]

I've seen the change myself.

I personally think there should be a board for old stories. Soak me in nostalgia...I'll be happy.

[Jon L.]

I hear what you're saying.  Heck, I see myself 'evolving' through those changes myself.  When I bought my car in my avatar, it was going to be an aspirated motor on my nos e/t wheels, etc.  Now it has a turbo 2519, narrowed, cage, practically promod.  On the other hand, I just got the cleanest 57 I've ever seen, and I've already got it down to bare metal, and it's going more traditional cal-look.  I personally like the diversity of the questions/comments-Zach is right, how many times can you ask the same question without some rolling of the eyes. ?

[bugnut]

What would people say the current status of the "California Look" is?  It seems like even Hot VWs is kind of nodding to the changing/evolution of the style, by referring to it as more succinctly as "the Look" in their annual Cal-Look issue.  My buddy Ron Bullard and I have discussed this many a time, and I'm kind of wondering what the others out there think.

Renn-Kafer started out as a really cool concept, I thought, and while I still dig it, it seems to have gone a bit too far (please no flaming here, not throwing out any disrespect, just an outsider's opinion), especially in terms of the cars' streetability function.  I think 2001--which is the last OSV "Speed Scene" video I bought, need to get caught up, lol--was a great time, with big fields showing up to show-n-go.  And I still think it's a great concept/class, but I don't really see much of the traditional Cal Look happening.  I.E., fat biscuit interiors, discussion of the old EMPI/Berg/FAT/etc. etc. accessories.  What was said earlier, seems to be true, more of the discussions are geared to the hardcore PRA racing or just VW drag racing in general.  Not necessarily a bad thing.

I think an interesting thread would be to see what cars people would nominate as their favorite Cal-Look VWs that AREN'T necessarily widely known.  I know my first vote in the ring would be for the late, great Jason Wicklund's '73 standard Bug, complete with wicked fast, IDA-fed 1915cc and Berg-5 tranny.  I had the priviledge of riding in that car a number of times and with those memories in mind can say I truly appreciate the greatness of a traditional Cal-Look car.  Yup, it was a late model, too!

[jimr]

I don't think the "pro mod" style is considered Cal Look, at least in my opinion. I guess the popular belief is that the original California Look from the late 60's stemmed from the drag cars of the day.
But street cars today that mimic race cars of today don't seem like California Look cars.

This is a interesting point, and one where everybody should kindly share their viewpoints, but without the tempers flaring.

We'll see.....I'm already ducking.

[turbo_bob]

I have notice this too, I dont think this is a bad thing, it just shows that we as a gourp have learned the basics. So to keep from being parrots we need to talk about different things. How many times can we as a group rehash, oil, temps, C/R, unless it is a new finding or something that changes the past old standard. How many of us want to stay at a 14 second street car level. It is natural to move up the ET ladder, just like the new cars of today, many are 14's and quicker.

[Dave Conklin (Cornpanzers)]

Been saying it for the last couple years.  But it seems to be a reoccuring theme.  Look at DKP 1 and 2.  In each incarnation, the guys eventually traded thier street cars either for a family or for a race car.  I just think it is a natural progression.
I think back to the Milan Mich Bug-In over the past few years.  In 99-2000, we Cornpanzers were happy to show up and display in the car show area.  In 2001 we started racing and were the onlly Cal-Look cars on the track.  Now, many of our "street-cars" have become marginally streetable.  It didnt take long to slide down that slippery slope!

Lets face it, most of this audience are people who have been around the scene for a while.  YOu can only re-hash the old stories and conversations about the merits of fat biscuit and dechroming so many times before you end up driving a Suburu........  (j/k Jim)    

On the other hand, Europe is BOOMING with some amazing traditional Cal-Look cars.   But, the Cal-Look has not been developed as thouroughly as it was here for the past thirty years.  Funny as it seems, the (real) Cal-Look is still kinda fresh over there.

[Pete Roberts]

Been saying it for the last couple years.  But it seems to be a reoccuring theme.  Look at DKP 1 and 2.  In each incarnation, the guys eventually traded thier street cars either for a family or for a race car.  I just think it is a natural progression.
I think back to the Milan Mich Bug-In over the past few years.  In 99-2000, we Cornpanzers were happy to show up and display in the car show area.  In 2001 we started racing and were the onlly Cal-Look cars on the track.  Now, many of our "street-cars" have become marginally streetable.  It didnt take long to slide down that slippery slope!

Lets face it, most of this audience are people who have been around the scene for a while.  YOu can only re-hash the old stories and conversations about the merits of fat biscuit and dechroming so many times before you end up driving a Suburu........  (j/k Jim)     

On the other hand, Europe is BOOMING with some amazing traditional Cal-Look cars.   But, the Cal-Look has not been developed as thouroughly as it was here for the past thirty years.  Funny as it seems, the (real) Cal-Look is still kinda fresh over there.

Oh yeah Dave , you wana bet Cal-Look is alive and well in Europe and especially the UK .

We have guy's trading in their family cars and race cars , to build hardcore Cal-Lookers , ha ha

You guy's inspired us , and we want to keep it well and truly alive , and on the street , where it's neat 

[Ron Bullard]

I think an interesting thread would be to see what cars people would nominate as their favorite Cal-Look VWs that AREN'T necessarily widely known. I know my first vote in the ring would be for the late, great Jason Wicklund's '73 standard Bug, complete with wicked fast, IDA-fed 1915cc and Berg-5 tranny. I had the priviledge of riding in that car a number of times and with those memories in mind can say I truly appreciate the greatness of a traditional Cal-Look car. Yup, it was a late model, too!

Jason's car was fun and pretty quick with his final setup, but he had tons more planned for it.  A real sleeper too, literally the former old lady car turned hot rod.  When we were still in college, he came over one night and we ended up cruising it all over up and down 99.  He had just put in the Berg 5, but he only had his near stock 1678 in it w/too big 44idfs.  Some guys pulled up in an old 912 next to us and said, "nice beetle".  He said to me, "Watch this", and downshifted and stomped on it.  WAAAAAAA!!!!  It would have been nice if we pulled away like they were standing still, but it just revved up and we *eventually* pulled away from them.  I couldn't stop laughing, it was just not the explosive burst of power we had expected. 

The car that was almost more fun to ride in was his Cal look Vanagon.  Well, not completely Cal look, but it was lowered, had Berg-modded DCNFs on custom intakes, a header w/turbo exhaust, and a VZ-25!  I think he was running low 18s in the quarter with it, everyone laughted at him until they saw how consistent he was with it.  I think his sister still has it. 

The current status of what some are calling California Look seems like what was "resto-custom" a few years back.  Maybe minus the roof racks and other accessories, but everyone has a 2-liter+ engine and IDAs.  Shave that trim and give me some t-bars or buggy bumpers.  The UK lookers done up in the traditional style look awesome.  I like to see the late model lookers because they're different, it seems everyone is doing the treatment to early cars.  

Lots of the racer stuff is boring to me, mostly because my hobby car is still my daily driver.  At this point I don't make enough money to drive a more sensible car while the VW toy stays home.  So the actual street use/driver stuff is what I like to read about.

[Pete Roberts]

There are a couple of guy's over here doing late lookers , tastefully done , they will be cool 

[garyj]

OK....This post was about the forum. Now we're back to "what is Cal-Look?". Pete...we need a new thread.

[ErikTheRed]

Well I haven't been perusing this forum for as long as some of you old goats , Ive only been browsing the Cal-Look internet pages for about 5 years. I got "into" VW's in 1989-1990ish, and had my first bug (a "Cal-Look" 68) my senior year of high school (1991). That car was slower than molasses in January snow, and every car Ive had since then has progressively become faster and faster until now I have a full-race-only Super Comp drag car. So accordingly, my interest in the hobby has evolved into the racing scene (while I still have great appreciation for all things VW). As to be expected, as our interests change, so then will the topics of our discussions. Its not a bad thing, its a different thing. And as the drag racing scene has exploded with the younger generation in years late, its only natural to expect our hobby will (and does) follow suit. There is no shortage of "show goers" who build street cars or trailer queens, that aspect is still alive and well. But even when this forum was more populated by traditional "Cal-Lookers", lets not forget that Cal-Look cars, in true form, are high-performance machines. Its only reasonable to think that our performance standard will progress, and in many cases, has progressed beyond what a streetable Cal-Looker can provide...........and so we enter the drag race arena.

[Pete Roberts]

I agree about the forum , it has gotton very ' complicated ' , with some really detailed A1 stuff , the recent cylinder head threads for example , awsome stuff .

I don't know if non engine people stay away , cos it goes a bit over their heads , but a lot of the guys in the UK read the forum religiously , just don't post all that often . I quite often get a phone call from one of our mates , going on about this or that thread , thay all read the CLF 

It is a bit of the shame that some of the older Cal-Look guy's don't post , but people do move on , and there seem plenty of new guy's , very passionate about VW's on the forum now 

[Pete Roberts]

[Tom Simon]

Yea, it's changed a lot John. The cool thing is there is room for all of it here. IMO a guy can can only wax nostalgic for so long, argue what is a 'real street car' or what are the 'true' cal-look wheels... Tee bar bumpers and 'what ever happened to the Arneson car?'...

I like the more hard core go-fast stuff, myself (no surprise there, LOL). Don't get me wrong, the fast street stuff is way cool, DKP club news too, and I think a lot of very valuable Cal-Looker information has been shared and ideas dicussed 'open forum' style. But dicussing some of that stuff gets down to opinions on art... the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Other arguments like 92's and aftermarket heads on the street, T1 versus T4 just go 'round and 'round, IMO.

Here's a few things to ponder:

Has the CLF in its ever evolving format helped or hurt the Cal-Looker scene? Personally, I think it has helped breath new life into that segment of the VW car hobby.

Without the CLF, would the Ren Kafer class have ever flourished? Would you have every imagined a high 10 from such a car? Same for Unlimited street? I don't think so. I remember cal-look cars from the 80's... no disrespect, I'll just say that the bar in terms of quality, fit and finish has been raised significantly. There is nothing like sharing information to help that along.

 

[garyj]

Man............I wish Mark H. was here. Some of what we're talking about here is the result of the "in-crowd" syndrome. I can remember a time when "LOOKERS" were all over the city. Some went with the "look" part first, others went with the "performance" part first. Sometimes, when goals seem to be out of reach, the goal disappears. Only those who were really invloved prior to '75 were in a league of thier own. Since then, we have copied many of the ideas and innovations that they started.....Sorry, beat me up, BUT, the wonderful and mega$$ cars that are being built today are just a testament to those cars that have withstood the test of time.........

[slowsixtyseven]

I think some of it has to do with the mere fact that most (if not all) of us just want to go faster. Also, it might have to do with stricter street racing laws now??? Either way, I have learned alot from this forum..... and whatever direction it takes, I hope to be part of it.

[Pete Roberts]

Man............I wish Mark H. was here. Some of what we're talking about here is the result of the "in-crowd" syndrome. I can remember a time when "LOOKERS" were all over the city. Some went with the "look" part first, others went with the "performance" part first. Sometimes, when goals seem to be out of reach, the goal disappears. Only those who were really invloved prior to '75 were in a league of thier own. Since then, we have copied many of the ideas and innovations that they started.....Sorry, beat me up, BUT, the wonderful and mega$$ cars that are being built today are just a testament to those cars that have withstood the test of time.........

Absolutely , REAL Cal-Look is timeless , the cars that looked bad then , look bad now .

Those were the cars that inspired us , there is only so much that can be done to the cars , but i for one , never get tired of well put together , fast , street , HOT VW's

[lawrence]

A lot of good opinions here.

Anyways, there will always be those people who want to go to the track and those who want to enjoy their cars on a regular basis. I love watching vw's blast down the strip, but driving/seeing a REAL cal-look beetle on the street is 10x better for me.

I am glad that I didn't go full tilt on my street motor, because now I know I can drive it when ever I want. Driving and enjoying the car is what its all about for me!! Well as soon as its fininshed of course

[Pete Roberts]

We all go to the track next weekend , to The Big Bang , here in the UK , but only to put a time on our street VW's , we will all be driving there , racing in RWYB on Saturday , then driving in convoy to a large static car show on Sunday . So a bit of both for us 

All we need to pray for , is a little California , Cal-Look , style sunshine 

[Isaac Potter]

I still have my 14 second convertible ghia   to cruise around town and go to various car shows.   I  have 3 vws  and i cant build them all the same way. I had some extra money a couple of years ago and decided to convert my 63 ragtop to more of a  Renn kafer car.  At the time 2276cc was my dream engine, so i collected the parts over a couple of years . Its taken me so long to build the car that the class has changed, people got a hell of a lot faster.   By the time i finish, the class may be extinct. When i finish i'll still take it to the track and join 1 of the classes i fall into.How many Renn Kafer have stepped up to Super Gas?  Who knows afer a couple of seasons the 63 ragtop may have a turbo, people continue to progress . The last and final car is my 59 ghia, this 1 will be mostly stock.

[VWGLENN]

  Personally I think that the Cal-Look and Performance go Hand in Hand, I totally enjoy where the CLF has evolved too, it's true we have lost some of the Old Posters but many were tired of the Flack that continues today by a few know it all types, You knoe who you are, I miss you Guys, but to balance this we have some Great New additions, how about Judy Kawell, and many of our VW Pals from across the Pond continue to show us things are continuing to elvolve with the VW Scene World-Wide, many of the Euro Scene Cars are built from the late Version Bug, even some Supers, and Many with the T-4 Motor,  Back to the Early Drag Cars that inspired us, Few were even Lowered in Front as a Lowered Bug did not Launch as well as one that sat High in front and Low in Rear, Only when the Inch Pincher fell into Darrell's hands was that Car re-set Low in Front, ( Paisley Top Version ) It's still great to see the various New Innovations in the VW Magazines from England, Germany, France, Japan, etc. but then I like things that are unusual or Out of the Box, I enjoy all of you guys and please remember, one guys "Cool Factor" is another guys "OMG" -->

[Pete Roberts]

  Personally I think that the Cal-Look and Performance go Hand in Hand, I totally enjoy where the CLF has evolved too, it's true we have lost some of the Old Posters but many were tired of the Flack that continues today by a few know it all types, You knoe who you are, I miss you Guys, but to balance this we have some Great New additions, how about Judy Kawell, and many of our VW Pals from across the Pond continue to show us things are continuing to elvolve with the VW Scene World-Wide, many of the Euro Scene Cars are built from the late Version Bug, even some Supers, and Many with the T-4 Motor,  Back to the Early Drag Cars that inspired us, Few were even Lowered in Front as a Lowered Bug did not Launch as well as one that sat High in front and Low in Rear, Only when the Inch Pincher fell into Darrell's hands was that Car re-set Low in Front, ( Paisley Top Version ) It's still great to see the various New Innovations in the VW Magazines from England, Germany, France, Japan, etc. but then I like things that are unusual or Out of the Box, I enjoy all of you guys and please remember, one guys "Cool Factor" is another guys "OMG" -->

Excellent point , well made 

[Darrell]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...........................Anthracite ! 
Great post Pete!

How about a "race car" catagory

p.s. Cal-Look is alive and well in California AND Canada !    (well, maybe not Edmonton.  I'm stuck here for a trade show until Monday and have not seen ONE air-cooled car.)

[Pete Roberts]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...........................Anthracite ! 
Great post Pete!

How about a "race car" catagory

p.s. Cal-Look is alive and well in California AND Canada !    (well, maybe not Edmonton.  I'm stuck here for a trade show until Monday and have not seen ONE air-cooled car.)

Cheers , sorry for all the pic's , but we love Cal-look , whatever version of it !!

As long as it's nose down , Hot motored , and Badass , we worship it ...

I never thought I would say it , but we are lucky in the UK , with the mild weather , we do get some hot days in the summer , but most of the time , it's mild enough to drive a 10.5 comp motor for miles .

[Mag00]

Yeah years ago it was much more common place to see a bug spray or NDIX carbs or something similar  on a hopped up bug than a full tilt IDA motor then that damn white car on the cover issue made history, in no time the wide ansens and stone's or posis were gone and the rush was on to see how skinny a front tire you could find.... That period, before the weird crap was the high point  til the earl 1990's revival... then a funny thing happened strokers and bores larger4 than 88 or 90.5 became the norm... All of a sudden the blue book meant less to many and 94 mm was king of the scene...  Just a quick glance at the top 10/20 will let you know that performance with a capital P has taken the lead ... still some great cal look cars out there just a heck of a lot quicker!!!

[Pete Roberts]

[martin]

The difference between Cal-Look and race car = beauty!

[Lanny]

Once again, fantastic inspiring pix from over the pond. More! More!

[Pete Roberts]

If you likey ...

[Dean N]

man you guys are inspiring me to put my 56 back together haha... all of those cars rock, they are awsome.

Im dont really care about a show car quality car, i would rather have it look decent and haul butt.  with the forum being more performance oreinted can only be a good thing.  it will propell those enthusiast into the next level of achieving more performance overall from thier motors, promote longevity through others experiences, and potentially enterest some new blood from those who have a creative mind and a flare for unique vehicles.

I just love the body lines of the car, ecspecially how the body line of the front fenders flow into the front apron; the curve.

man you guys are inspiring me to put my 56 back together haha... all of those cars rock, they are awsome.

Im dont really care about a show car quality car, i would rather have it look decent and haul butt.  with the forum being more performance oreinted can only be a good thing.  it will propell those enthusiast into the next level of achieving more performance overall from thier motors, promote longevity through others experiences, and potentially enterest some new blood from those who have a creative mind and a flare for unique vehicles.




I just love the body lines of the car, ecspecially how the body line of the front fenders flow into the front apron; the curve.



I always dig traditional cal look cars, this is what got me hooked in the 80's, nothing like centerlines or alloys, one piece windows, dechromed and a fast motor 





this car is just plain bitchin looking.. nice touch on the rims, it really makes the car.

[Pete Roberts]

Yea , I dig what you mean , the cars don't have to be 100% perfect show cars , but as long as they are very tidy , have ' The Look ' whatever the hell that is , and Haul Ass , they are all right by me .

Don't get me wrong , I love mega detailed cars , Buddy hale is ' The Man ' as far as I am concerned , but I do like to see the cars get driven , and given a good ' leathering' as much as possible ...









And as for Randy Andy Jewell's Grey 62 , he keeps on thinking about parting with the car , we all tell him he's lost the plot . What do you guy's think , I told him , if he sells that car , he's a proper muppet , it's hardcore ...