All you turbo guys

[wayne harron]

Ok its christmas and i am attempting to give myself a GOOD christmas present. Time for an upgrade going turbo thanks Gene Cook and 68turbofastback. Need all of your opinions though. Draw-through or blow-through, looking at going with one of two options. Cb's hideaway kit with the fuel injection or AJ Simms kit. Right now the engine is 2110 with 44's and will run mid 8's no air cleaners or belt. I am in the process of building a 2332 for the next season. I would like the kit to be able to be used on either engine. What do you guys think?

[mmccarthy]

 KAWELL,               


 http://www.kawellracing.com/

                                       Mike McCarthy

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

I'm a "drawthru" man myself.
Much cheaper, easier to setup.
Super simple (easy to troubleshoot).
Reliable. Easy to change spark plugs, etc...
I run a 1 5/8" header on my 2110cc street motor, as well as my 2332 drag motor.
Works great on both.
A T3/4 hybrid turbo should do about all you can handle.
Pick your carb setup. Holley is proably the easiest and most simple.

The only drawback is the decklid issue. Not a huge deal to me personally, but some folks will spend alot of money so they can keep it "under hood".

[Squirmn German]

KAWELL,               


 http://www.kawellracing.com/

                                       Mike McCarthy

x2

[fifty-five]

You've seen my sims kit, you can look at it close tom. And I'll tell ya what I like about it and what I wish was different. I've heard all positive about kawell, I would definitely talk to him!

[fiatdude]

Is it a street or drag car ??

[fifty-five]

He's got a 66 street car. It's the one in his profile pic.

[wayne harron]

It's a street car that does the strip on occasion ok more than on occasion but none the less I do drive it on the street when i can.

[Chip Birks]

I'll put in a plug for EFI, I went this route almost 2 years ago, never looked back.  The tunability and ultimately the control achievable with EFI, just can't be beat.  I also am a decklid fan, so the fact that I have a turbocharged, air to water intercooled, fuel injected monster that easily gets in the mid 20s MPG, burning E85,  hiding under the lid in my ratty old OG paint bug makes me smile    I love getting in the car when there is ice on the windshield, and turning the ignition without touching the throttle and hearing it fire and idle instantly.  NO draw through motor will do that on a COLD day. 

[mmccarthy]

 Chip I like EFI, wish I could afford it, what does a complete system like yours cost and what HP did you get on a dyno at the wheels ?  I have just changed my engine from Pro mod to USE configurations and used my T4 , manifold and my 600 Holley. I am extremely happy with the driveability and performance Dave and Judy gave me with this setup.                                                                 Mike

[gbaker770]

Are you going USE racing Mike? I really like your car that thing is badass!

[Ovalnut]

Gavin, he specifically said "All you turbo guys", I think you drive a fuel injected Toyota?

[IN RANGE inc.]

Gavin, he specifically said "All you turbo guys", I think you drive a fuel injected Toyota?

Awesome!!!!! Show him the love Matt!

[mmccarthy]

Are you going USE racing Mike? I really like your car that thing is badass!


Maybe yes, maybe just a very bad street car that runs 6's  ,               Mike

[vwbyoy88]

Then you need to bring that thing USE racing and you can walk off with some cash running in the 6's!!!!

[fifty-five]

Gavin, he specifically said "All you turbo guys", I think you drive a fuel injected Toyota?

Yall hear that, I think I heard nuts crunching.... Oh wait, couldn't have been, gavin ain't got none...lol

[Chip Birks]

Chip I like EFI, wish I could afford it, what does a complete system like yours cost and what HP did you get on a dyno at the wheels ?  I have just changed my engine from Pro mod to USE configurations and used my T4 , manifold and my 600 Holley. I am extremely happy with the driveability and performance Dave and Judy gave me with this setup.                                                                 Mike

Mike, EFI is awesome, but it can turn into a pretty serious investment for sure.  I built mine over a couple of years, and have actually spent the last year redoing almost everything that I did the first time.  Cost comes down to what you can do yourself and what you have to pay others to do.  I designed and built almost all of my intake from scratch, the only parts that I purchased were the IDF pattern manifolds with injector bosses built in.  I have a few hundred $$ in raw materials and such on the intake.  Then there are injectors, you'd probably want at least ID1000's for the HP you are making.  Those run about $115 each.  The ECU that I run is called Megasquirt.  I run the biggest and baddest version that you can buy and build yourself.  MS3/MS3x.  I have a little over $600 in that part alone.  It controls the fuel, high output spark, boost, oil cooler fan, intercooler fan, 3 step launch control, flex fuel(I can run E85, or gasoline and don't have to retune), water/methanol injection, and other stuff that I can't remember right now.  My throttle body is 50mm off of a cougar or something, cost me $20 at a local Pick and Pull.  There are a few generic GM temp sensors needed, look at about $50(on the high end) total for those.  The fuel pump and regulator is where it can get pricey, my reg is made by Mallory, it was about $100, my pump is a cheap summit POS, and will probably be upgraded in the near future.  You can spend anywhere from $100-500 on a good pump.  Coils are another source for some cost.  I initially ran a distributerless setup off of a ford that cost about 15 bucks to setup.  Now I am running coil on plug, and each coil was about 40 bucks a piece. 

I am only planning on running this car on pump gas/E85.  I plan to make 250-350 at the tires running from 12-20 psi.  No dyno data yet, as the car is currently under construction.  But hopefully in the near future.

[byoung]

Are you going USE racing Mike? I really like your car that thing is badass!


Maybe yes, maybe just a very bad street car that runs 6's  ,               Mike

hell yes.

[PipeDream]

Im not sure what the cost is on the injection system. but if you want to save some money and still get the reliable use out of the car and still make power, I have not had any problems with the A.J. Sims Kit. He Still makes room for the deck lid to close. Its all up to What your budget is. Good Luck

[VdanielW]

I run the LowBugget kit also and have had no problems. Easily upgradeable and can fit under the deck lid (he can even custom make your headers if you are going to run a very large turbo for under the deck lid). Very happy with it.

[fiatdude]

I really like the way AJ sets up a carb and I had his turbo and carb on my Fiat and it ran really great -- the dial-a-jet he puts on the carbs is worth its weight in gold, saves having to have a ton of jets in the tool kit -- -- I'm going EFI on my new toy and building everything myself (because I like the pain and I've gone so far from the norm that nobody builds chit for it LOL)
-- -- don't think you can go wrong with any of the systems though -- would recommend staying as mainstream (ie holley etc) rather than trying to blow thru webers. Good luck with your project

[wayne harron]

I was looking at the CB kit that they have. Doing the hideaway turbo with the 48mm throttle bodies. Does anyone know what kind of computer it uses? I have heard a lot of people talk about megasquirt, but all i can find on their site just says CB programmable fuel injection. Anyone know who makes it or is it something they have manufactured it?

[vwbyoy88]

Their setup is an engine control module coupled with their software that programs/runs their injectors. You just put the software on your laptop, plug in the cable to the ECM and it has a sweet dashboard to set up the timing of everything. Look back in HotVWs, their mileage motor put that on it and they did an in depth complete article.

[ProTurboVW]

Kawell, Best HP FOR THE MONEY And He knows his stuff!

[fiatdude]

I was looking at the CB kit that they have. Doing the hideaway turbo with the 48mm throttle bodies. Does anyone know what kind of computer it uses? I have heard a lot of people talk about megasquirt, but all i can find on their site just says CB programmable fuel injection. Anyone know who makes it or is it something they have manufactured it?

Megasquirt is a DIY system as far as they send you the circuit board and u build it. I can't solder worth a chit so I didn't look at it any further.

Call CB up -- the girls that answer the phone are really good and if they aren't doing the job ask for Pat Downs -- he is the ace -- their FI is self tuning -- the more you  drive it the better it runs -- Have heard good things about it on NA cars, don't know of any turbo cars it is on personally. The hideaway system is what I patterned my system after

[68turbofastback]

I run the CB Quick tune with turbo, and the autotune works very well.  Pat has always been a great help if there is a problem, or when people using it like me do stupid things with it.

Kevin

[fiatdude]

Since Chip priced all his stuff out -- here is what I spent

Electromotive TEC gt with all the bells and whistles, crank pickup and injectors -- let's call it  $3000

Areomotive 1000 pump/filter/regulator about $800

all the plumbing /fittings/welding to tank etc etc about another $1500-$2000

custom Alum. endcastings set up for injectors $500+

crap -- now my head is starting to hurt from adding all these up

[Chip Birks]

Harold,
My head is hurting for you.  What injectors did you end up getting for your setup?

[fiatdude]

because I'm going batch fired I can get by with smaller ones (they work twice per cycle) -- 60# bousch should be good for almost 500 HP

[chazavw]

I wouldn't buy it from AJ Simms.

When lowbugget is in your name there's a reason why?

If you need details just rattle my cage!

[BeetleBug]

If you want power AND control = EFi/ECU.

A 2332ccm turbo engine should make at least 150hp @ atm=

1 bar / 14psi = 300hp
2 bar / 29psi = 450hp
3 bar / 43psi = 600hp

With E85 that`s about how far I would go  

Needless to say; build a strong longblock and add a much bigger turbo than the usual, small, old fashion T3/4 hybrids. Look into Holset HX40 or bigger if you want a cheap turbo that will last and also produce the boost you want. Point is - going big does not cost more, it just gives you more bang for the bucks. Get someone to build you a header or use a pre-made header as a start and do whatever possible to cool your intake temp. Personally I can highly recommend Tony Wilkie / TW engineering for your turbo build. Top service, great guy and good prices.

My 2 cents..

BB

[fiatdude]

Well Wayne --- -- There you have it --- I guess it comes down to how big your budget is for your present. Good luck with your project.

If you have questions -- We all be here to continue to confuse the chit out of ya!!! LOL

[wayne harron]

Yeah , thanks to all of guys. I really appreciate all the input. So my Christmas bonus totally SUCKED!!!! I wish it hadn't because then my car would have been blowing in a forced induction kind of way. So the turbo project is on hold for the time being so i decided to just buy a nice set of IDA's instead. But again guys really thanks for all your input,it's in the memory bank I just have to wait a little while longer.

[S/P4884]

 Wayne, I REALLY think you need to go turbo, then you'll need a turbo geared trans!!

[wayne harron]

I still need to get a good set of axles, Mike. Maybe do a little something different with the mainshaft, not sure yet what I want to do though.