Would I be wasting my time?

[youngnstudly]

If you have been (kinda) following along, I am currently building a 2276 that is nearing completion, and I am doing quite a bit of work to it, besides the fact I had the shortblock machined and assembled (as I didn't have the needed experience or time to assemble my first stroker myself). I did, however, tackle the conversion for turning my Denmark heater boxes into a pair of 1-5/8" tubed heater boxes that work as part of a "kit" I bought from oldspeed. The kit came with 1/4" thick laser cut flanges, the merged header, and the pipes needed to transform stock heater boxes (they no longer produce this kit).

I have had more than a few guys show interest in seeing how heater boxes are disassembled and fitted with larger pipes (then reassembled). Is there enough demand for me to post pics/instructions of this information? I'm not a pro by any means, but I  have found more than a few differences between taking German boxes apart and the (now available) Denmark boxes. I have also used a standard merged header with aftermarket 1-1/2" heater boxes in the past (kinda the "opposite" conversion- ). Let me know if you guys are interested as I will have to host a few (more) pics and copy them here, then list some insight and findings. As of now I have PM'd/emailed one cal-look member (back and forth) a few times and I don't want to send 40 emails privately for only a few requests if others can use the info too.

Thanks!
-Andy

[martin]

Yes, post the pictures. If you use Photobucket, you can paste the img tags into your post, it's so easy, shows full size, and offloads the bandwidth to Photobucket, rather than this forum. I'd love to see the pics!!

[youngnstudly]

Alright, I am in the process of figuring all this photobucket stuff out...I had some pics on the samba but I thought I would keep everything in one place to make things easier (due to the fact I'm not a computer nerd ...Just a regular nerd). It looks like this is the same process as thesamba with img codes for forums. Hopefully this works <fingers crossed>

Stock box



Step one: I cut the ends using a hacksaw due to the fact I wanted to keep the shape of the tin and not dent or damage the tin by using a sawzall. I chose to do this step first as I didn't want to get the halves seperated and then try to clamp them and keep everything round and in it original shape. You might not have to cut the rear tube as I did in the pic-My boxes were modified with exhuast tubing.



Step 2: Lightly pry the tabs  that hold the "cover" on the backside of the damper and lever. If you unfold the tabs on the inside (flywheel side) and "slip" the cover off towards the outside, it will look cleaner when you reassemble it later (the outside will look factory and any "coaxing" with the BFH (big freakin hammer) to refold the tabs will be on the inside-unseen).



Step 3: I learned on the second side to unfold only the first few tabs and turn or "roll" the cover with your hand or a mallet (clockwise/counterclockwise) to unhook it.



Step 4: Trim this (inlet that connects to the fanshroud) using your Wiss airplane snips (local hardware store-$16.00) or a cutoff wheel. I chose snips so I wouldn't have a gap to (later) weld up. You have to cut both sides of this opening (the top until you reach the seam, and the lower part until you get the area to the header connection "free". A screwdriver works well to pry this apart.



Step 4 (continued): It is doubled up (overlapped) so check before cutting and try not to trim through spot welds-snips don't like that!



Step 5: Start here and just unfold the curved section on top- I need to get a pic posted of my tools that were used for the next photo.


*Smoke break*...I don't smoke but right now my brain is so I need a break (more later)...

[youngnstudly]

Alright, as I was saying, you need tools to do this job. . 



Here we have a standard "sheet metal workers hammer" and I think home depot sells them (in the heating and cooling section-not the tools section). It"s 16oz. (if memory serves me) and has more mass and a better (pointed) end for shaping the areas where the tubes exit (compared to a body/fender hammer). I was a sheet metal worker so most of these tools are used everyday in the shop.


Red snips (rights) and Green snips (lefts) were used, mainly the reds, the blue handled clippers are (as legend has it) nail clippers for a horse and if you look closely, I ground the jaws on top to a point. I used these to evenly open the female seam (groove) so that the male end would slip inside and fit correctly after I hammered it flat. They were a $5 buy on ebay and your local store sells a similar (but small) pair of these in the plier section as side cutters.
 

This is the flat dolly that I used to shape the openings around the exhuast tubing on the sheet metal. I chucked it up in the vise with the 1/2" thick side facing up (to make the radius larger for the 1-5/8" pipe to fit inside.


This is a typical automotive (parts house) tool used to remove cotter pins. It's called a "cotter key remover" in the Matco catalog and is $16. It's hard to tell, but the tip angles to the left (or right-I can't remember) so I rested the round (1/2 loop) part of this tool against the heater box and set the angled tip into the opened seam. I just twisted it like twisting a screw driver to open the seams up evenly and from there you can use linesman pliers (not pictured). Also, in the 1st tool pic, is a black handled flat blade screwdriver that I ground the tip on...It's tapered narrower on both directions of the blade (to make it thinner) and I used this tool to start all of my seams (on the ends).


Bare with me. I am going to make the posts shorter in case my "computer" crashes. I use the term loosely as it's a sorry excuse for a computer.

[youngnstudly]

Speaking of seams, on both the upper and lower seams of each (Denmark) box I found a spot weld on each end. There are also a few spot welds in the middle and the tubes are spot welded to the sheet metal even! Make note that I said Demark boxes...I'll cover the German ones later on (I found a much easier way to disassemble those boxes!).

Continuing from the first post-This is how I split the seam between the heater box inlet (coming from the fan shroud) and the header connection. If you're header and heater boxes still have the slip joint (instead of having flanges welded on the header and heater boxes-like mine) you'll probably have an easier time spliting the halves apart.  When I say "easier time", I mean you'll save 5 minutes...Not 2 hours!


This pic shows the ends of the seams where the spot welds are. Notice on the ends, they are all "snipped" (notched) at a 45 degree angle because I wasn't about to screw around prying spot welds apart-Just snip them off  and your done! As my boss used to say "Hurry the hell up! We're not building an antique clock!"
Note: The section of tube that is still attached to the sheet metal in this pic is what the flap "seals" against when you close the lever to turn off the heat in the car. It must be reattached the proper depth so your flap will seal against it. If you cut the tube (Step 1) too close to the flap, this piece falls out-plus you have less material to reweld the tube back on.



Notice the 45 degree notch on the end of this seam where there used to be a spot weld. You can also see the missing section on the sheet metal here where the Denmark factory spots the sheet metal to the pipe...Don't worry about that area just yet. You don't need to do anything to loosen the welds on that end. You'll see later...

[youngnstudly]

At this point, you should have the upper (rear) section of the heater box loose where the radiused seam is between the inlet and the cylinder head (as it installs in the car). You can repeat the same steps for the bottom rear as well for the radiused portion. Just do one box at a time too!

Now I moved to the front (upper) seam that is radiused between the cover (removed in step 2 and 3) and the cylinder head (as installed in the car). Remember to snip the spot weld first and you can unhook the little 1/2" seam above the pipe and flange (just below the cover you removed).  It's easier to "work" both ends of the radiused seam section, starting with breaking the spot welds from the sheet metal to the pipe (180 degrees apart). I took the cotter pin tool and "jammed" it in there and twisted it to "break" the spot welds. I had trouble with the second spot weld though and used the sharpened screwdriver and a mallet to get between the pipe and sheet metal. Be careful that you don't break the handle of the screwdriver by hitting it (wear glasses and/or use a "real" chisel). These pics suck but they're all I have! I didn't realize I'd be writing a novel later on!

Just "jam" the cotter pin tool in and twist!


This was the first box I took apart so I didn't have the "gentle touch" developed yet. Don't forget to use linesman pliers or even channellock pliers to straighten the rough seams you pry apart. Unfold just the radiused section on top, not the straight section that is under the valve cover when installed in the car. Also do NOT mess with the seam that is on the bottom side in the front!

[youngnstudly]

Now comes the "fun" part of finding the spot welds between the radiused sections of seam. If you gently pry in different areas of the straight section, you will soon find out where the spot welds hide (by the fact the seam won't move or seperate when you twist your screwdriver or cotter pin tool against the seam (like you did to unfold the radiused sections). I used a sharpened chisel to "cut" through the top layer on both sides of the spot weld (in a "V" shape) so the points meet to break the metal around the spot weld. Rest the open end of the female (grooved) seam up on your dolly (that is chucked up in the vise) and hit the chisel a few times until you break through the top layer only (see pic below)! The halves of the heater box (in the pic) are already apart for a more clear view of what I'm talking about. Don't skip steps though!


This pic shows 2 things-First the spot weld (pinhole) that I actually broke by unfolding the seam all the way (about a 3/4" section) and "jamming" the sharpened screwdriver between the 2 halves of the heater box tin and hitting it with a mallet! Also, the pic shows a factory slot that is probably used for draining water (from rain) and I used this hole many times to pry the seam (loosely) apart while checking for more spot welds. You can get good leverage using this hole.

[youngnstudly]

You should hopefully have nearly all the spot welds broken or chiseled free and all the spots on the ends of the seams should be cut off at this point. The 2 upper (valve cover side) radiused sections of seam should be "opened" and the rear lower section of seam (radiused) should be opened as well. The only thing that  you should have done to the front (outlet side) lower seam, is cut the spot weld at the end of the seam and check for any other spots on that radius.

This is the moment you have been (cussing and yelling) to get to! With all the spots removed and the halves ready to come apart, gently work your way down the upper seam with the cotter pin tool and "hook" the tool between the female and male seams. Start from the sharp radius (below the cover you removed in step 2) and work you way to the straight section. I was able to squeeze the male half of the heater box tin together with my hands (keeping the tool hooked to 'start" the seam) and "pop" the upper seam apart.


Now the front lower seam (under the linkage and flap) can be "pulled apart" by pushing the heater box half with the male seam down with one hand, and at the same time pulling the half with the female end up to seperate the 2 halves.



 Once that is free, the only thing holding the heater box halves and pipe together is 2 spot welds  (the ones I said not to mess with that are 180 degrees apart on the pipe). It's easy to gently (there's that word again! )  wiggle the halves back and forth until the spot welds break...Notice that this is the second box I took apart so I was able to leave the rear seam on the bottom folded over and still get the box apart. I know I said to unfold it but you might not have to.


AND WE'RE DONE (told you it was easy!)! ;)Thanks for looking and enjoy you're heat!

Seriously though, that was a major portion of the job. If you were careful enough you should be able to put the heater box halves together w/o the pipe, just by  squeezing the male half together and slipping it into the lower or upper female seam on the other half.

[youngnstudly]

Now comes the part where I tell you to put gloves on and retract all the swear words you used to take the (Denmark) boxes apart. This is the method I used to take the German boxes apart and if you have some that are worth saving, use them! They are WAY easier to take apart (from my experience!). First, no spot welds that I encountered, second, you don't need to cut the front outlet tube off! These are self explainatory if you read the above post on tearing into the aftermarket boxes. Note that the stock fins can't be used on bigger heater box tubing due to it's shape. The main difference on these would be that you'd have to cut the tin away to fit a bigger pipe into the sheet metal. You can weld a few halves of larger tubing to the stock (enlarged) tin to recreate the nice tight flange that seats around the pipe.


Alright, I have spent more time posting this (useless) information than I care to think about. I've turned the 15 or 20 hour job of tearing apart 4 heater boxes (and converting 2 over to 1-5/8" tubing) into a 23 hour job! Hope some of you can use this info, and until I get some sleep, you're going to have to stay in suspense!

Stay tuned and tomorrow I'll post "the other half" of the conversion.
-Andy

[scott s]

 Awesome thread. Somebody make this a stickie.
 Did you fab up any kind of heat sinks on the big bore J-tubes?

[youngnstudly]

Awesome thread. Somebody make this a stickie.
 Did you fab up any kind of heat sinks on the big bore J-tubes?

Thanks Scott, but I'm not sure anyone will want to do this after I posted how to! It's too much work and way too much fun! And no I didn't use any kind of heat sinks as I was originally planning to.

Alright, enough lollygagging-you guys are never going to finish if you keep screwing around! Now that we have the halves apart, we need to shape the openings to accept the new bigger tubing. I used the flat dolly and my hammer to stretch the area around the openings. I first tried to use math and take my 1-5/8" diameter pipe and multiply it by pi (3.14) to find the circumference  of the tubing (5.08"), so I could divide that number by 2 (since there are 2 halves of the heater box) and get 2.5". The idea was to cut a 2.5" long strip of (whatever-flashing, cardboard, paper, etc) and use that to measure how much I have to hammer on the tube openings to get them shaped correctly. Long story (even longer), don't use this method as math is not your friend...Your hammer is! If you like,  you can mark a line using that 2.5" strip on your pipe to see where the center is so you can keep test fitting your tubing in the heater box half your working on. You'd want to get the lines on the tube to match with the split lines (upper and lower seams) on each heater box half.

I found it was easy to just take the sharp (rounded curve) out using a hammer and the edge of the dolly to stretch the opening. The hard (er) part is to keep the opening  round (ish).


My openings ended up a little too big (bigger is better-or so I hear) but I was more than happy with the overall fit. It looks bigger in the pic than it actually is (not the first time I've said that! ) The 1/2" seam is flattened in this pic because when you take the heater box halves apart a milli-I mean  a few times, that area gets in the way. I was able to "shrink" the opening by cutting the male portion of the seam off and bending another one closer in so the halves would be drawn together more.


Here is what the tubing that I had looked like installed in one half of the box. There are a few areas that are really tight (and actually hit the sheet metal) but since I didn't use any heatsink, fins, or angle inside of the box (like I wanted to), I had a much easier time "adjusting" the sheet metal to line up with all of my other tin in place. 


The  problem areas you need to watch out for when trial fitting your (half-ass assembled boxes on the engine) are the screw holes in factory sleds under the pushrod tubes (that need to line up with the tabs on the heater box), the gap between the valve cover and the heater box, the heater box inlet that has to allow the foil tube from the fanshroud to "sneak" past the header tubes for the rear exhaust ports, and lastly, the space between the front cylinder exhaust ports and the heater box tin...you do have to get nuts on the front exhuast studs, right? .

[youngnstudly]

Now at this point, you're thinking "How the hell did this moron get the flanges fitted and welded without us seeing a pic of it?"  The answer would be that I snapped the last pic just before I assembled the box for the final time. If you're playing along with me on your own heater boxes, you can now put the halves together with the tube fitted in place (don't worry if it's too loose as mine was). The easy way to join the halves of the heater box for the (one of many) trial fits is to hook the top seam and line up the drain slot in the box halves or maybe some notches/broken spot welds so the halves are even. Now hook the straight section on the bottom of the heater box and use a soft mallet to "seat" the long curved seam on the front of the heater box that runs to the tube you cut off (step 1 )
Hopefully it looks like this:


Now to fit it to the engine (notice that the short leg of the J-tube is really long) I just bolted the flanges in place on the header and cylinder head so I could slip the heater box on and off easily and fit it tight before any welding took place. I trimmed the short leg off the J-tube with a hacksaw, and once it was within an inch of the "other" end of the J-tube slipping into the bottom header flange, I used my snips to trim it a little at a time.


I marked it with a sharpe marker all the way around both flanges (but on the tubing) to see if I had a 1/4" of tubing slipping into the flange (so they would be even  with the end of the flange for welding and grinding flush where the flanges mate together). If the tube was cut at an angle, I'd trim the long portion off so I had the tube "even" on the end and just trim that amount from the opposite end of the J-tube. Don't cut it too short though!


Once it's fitted you can tack weld the flanges onto each heater box and take them off the engine. Tack them REALLY good or stitch weld them about an inch. Don't forget to tape off the exhuast ports so slag don't enter your cylinders through the exhaust port (3 layers of duct tape worked for me). Now you can "smack" your loosely shaped tube opening (the sheet metal) so it fits tight against the J-tube. Clamp the loose end (as shown) and use your horse clippers to hold the other side (seams) together while shaping.


Now seperate the box halves so you can do the final welding on the flanges. More to come...

[youngnstudly]

Depending on how smooth your shaping adventure turned out on the J-tube openings, you can trim a smidge off of the opening using your snips, but be careful not to change the shape of your opening a bunch. You can reshape it using needle nose pliers if need be. I trimmed about a 1/16" off of each reshaped flange to make them straight and clean. I wasn't too concerned with the gaps where the factory spot welds were (from the sheet metal to the old pipe) because I figured I would fill those gaps later when I weld the tube and the sheet metal halves back together. A plug weld or "stitch" weld will hide that gap perfectly (depending on how long it is).


 Now is a good time to take any last dents out of the sheet metal (unless you're building a rusty sleeper...Or don't care about dents in you heater boxes). This stood out as a "sore thumb" so I beat it down flat using the hammer and flat dolly (in the vise).


...And fit/trim any last tin that needs it. I used the loose flange from the other side heater box (that you haven't started on yet) to fit my front lower sled tin.


I snipped the "turned edge" off and used my linesman pliers to refold the the 90 degree bend further down to clear the header flange.


The last thing I did before putting the heater box halves aside (so I could weld the flanges to the J-tubes) was straighten the male seam on my heater box half, and straighten the female side (only the straight portions of the seams are "flat") using the 16 gauge galvanized plate (in the tool pic next to the flat dolly). It's easy to set the open end of the female seam up on the dolly's edge, slip the 16 gauge into the groove untils it gets tight, and lightly tap the seam so it's evenly closed (after you pryed on it to get the halves apart and together for fitting, it might be smashed or twisted). After that you can use the horse clippers to open the groove more so the male end will easily slip into place.

Notice that the sheet metal halves don't lay flat when you lay the seams on a flat surface. They have a sweep in the front section of the tin where the long curved area on the bottom seam is. Don't change that curved section on either half of the heater box tin or it won't go back together. Try not to "heavily modify" any of the seams. Any part of the female seams that were opened up can now be (left open!) but straightened out using pliers. If you totally unfolded any areas of the female seams, refold them so that the "open" end is standing a little less than 90 degrees from the closed end of the seam (between a "V" shape and an "L" shape-The seam closed fully would be a "U" shaped as it's folded onto itself).

[youngnstudly]

Here is a shot of the stitch weld I used on the flange ( I copied what old speed did on the header flanges...And soon realized why they did it that way. The bolts for the flanges barely fit as it is, no way they'll fit with a bead of weld in the way).


So the inside of the flange (mating surfaces) were welded instead and ground flat. I used a vise on the ground to hold the J-tube (flanges up) so I could weld them.  Check the "70's survior" honda chopper that my neighbor rewired for a kid in the honda chopper club (internet based forum). Not really my "cup of tea" but still nostalgic and cool.


As you can see I had a little "nerky/jervious" shaking going on while welding around the inside of the tube without resting my elbows or wrists on anything for support. I had to haul ass welding since I was welding 1/4" material to 16 guage tubing. I put 2 tack welds 180 degrees apart so I could weld the tubing in 2 shots.


I used the angle grinder and smoothed the weld down, then to "level" the surface, I used a large file that was coarse, but not too coarse. It was followed up by some quick strokes with a finer file. I kept the J-tube in the vise to file and grind the ends.


As of now, I have not used the rotary file (die grinder) to smooth the welds on the inside of the pipe, but that is something that can be done later (one of the last steps).

You can now get the other heater box apart and repeat all the steps to bring both boxes to this stage. You'll need both on the engine for the final fitting and marking. This one will go by much faster now that you have gotten some experience with the first one! Seriously, it will!

[youngnstudly]

The heater boxes (both) can now be assembled for the final time and it should fit together nicely. I found it easiest to hook the large curved section last by using a hammer and screwdriver (or chisel) and tapping the male seam enough to force it into the female seam. The heater box should be fitted to the engine (again) just before you weld the halves together, so you can mark the placement of the tubes and the tube openings to establish a relationship between them (for location). You'll notice my markings on the J-tubes from "locating" the sheet metal. Also, don't forget to tilt the heater box halves so the angles are the same from one heater box to the other. I loosely placed the covers (removed in step 2) on the boxes to get a "visual" of everything as a whole.

 A tape measure was used to get the distance between the front (outlet tubes) equal from side to side, using the gland nut on the flywheel as a center point. This isn't very precise but the boxes I started with weren't precision-built to begin with (the right side box was always about a 1/2" futher back on it's J-tube, but the left front flange was way tougher to get the exhuast nut on the driver's side).


I was finally able to strip the coating off the male and female seams (just where I planned to stitch weld) and wipe it clean, before clamping and welding. I started on the top seam at the "front" cylinder by using a large visegrip "C-clamp" to clamp the upper and lower seams together so the halves would fit tightly and the seams would "seat." Start at the front of the top seam (welding a stitch), and then move to the rear of the top seam and weld there.

 Make sure you clamp and strip the paint off each time you weld. It is easier (for me anyways) to put 2 tack welds an inch apart before welding a bead, so that the stitches come out a similar length and you know where to start and stop your weld bead. Also, after you place your tacks an inch apart, take your pliers and close the female seam that you opened (to get the halves together for gapless welding). You'll burn a hole in your sheet metal otherwise (and it's only 24 gauge to begin with!). It can be difficult to weld!


After a couple of stitches are welded on the top seam, you can move to the bottom seam near the drain hole and clamp it and weld. *Keep checking that sheet metal doesn't shift or move on you as you clamp and weld, which would cause the front seam to "pop out" on the large curved section.


This is one area where I removed a factory spot weld, so I cleaned the area and filled it with another stitch weld. *Make sure you have the halves of the box equally lined up so they are even before clamping!* Don't clamp too tight or any place other than the seam-the top and bottom seams won't be the same distance apart if you clamp too tight and "squeeze" the box together, and clamps will dent the box if they're not directly on the seams.


Just keep moving towards the outlet tube from the drain hole. I only placed 3 welds in that space. Don't worry about welding past this spot right now as the end of the seam will need to have the outlet tube tacked and welded later.


Now you can start tapping the open parts of the female seam closed in the corners. Use a dolly in the vise and "flatten" it completely, but make sure you don't drive the male seam out of the female seam. Clamps are your friend!
I happen to have a round dolly that worked great, but you might even be able to use a piece of pipe in the vise! To start a flange that is opened (if it wasn't folded to 90 degrees or a  "V" shape earlier) simply tap the flange down with your hammer, then flatten it completely on the dolly.


Then...


and finally this area. use the visegrips, a hammer, a screwdriver (etc.) to line up these halves and tack them in short intervals. As mentioned this is 24 gauge so a bead will be tough to run on thin material like this. I did it in halfs (just like welding the flanges on the inside) with tacks to help me see where to start and stop my bead. Also, if you're not familar with MIG welding (GMAW/Gas Metal Arc Welding, or "wire" welding as it's called), it is easier to run beads on thin material in the vertical position (downhill) as gravity will help keep the bead (and heat from the arc) flowing constantly so you don't burn through. I had trouble getting my head and welding helmet under the short leg of the J-tube with the long leg of the J-tube in the vise (on the floor). I didn't want to risk using the bench mounted vise and starting a fire though.


The very end is the toughest to weld (all the heat ends up there) but I didn't worry as I am welding some tubing onto the inlet to recieve the tubing that goes to the breast plate.


The local muffler shop made 2 galvanized pipe reducers (2" O.D to 2" I.D.) for me out of 2 pcs. of 2" tubing, 8" long, for $5. I have to cut each tube in half (4" long pcs.) and I can use the 2 extra sleeves to replace the outlet tubes I cut off. Or I could replace the tubing that came off the outlet with some German tubes that have the clips on them (to hold the body-to-heater box tube in place). You'll have to decide which route you want to go (and what year car you have). Early cars like mine came with 50mm diameter tubes on the outlets so my 2" O.D. would work if I wanted to use it. If I use larger tubes for the outlet, the aftermarket "late model engine to early car" hoses should gradually taper from 60mm to 50mm diameter so the flow won't be as restricted. I haven't made up my mind which way I going to go yet ...


I need a coffee break now...

[youngnstudly]

I haven't forgotten about my cal-look family and this heater box post, I have just been busy with other things during the past week. Look forward to seeing the rest of this conversion in the next day or 2 as I should have some free time to screw with posting pics and finishing the last touches on the heater boxes.

-Andy

[youngnstudly]

So, I am finally able to sit down and add to this topic. With most of the work done on these boxes, the little "finishing touches" are all that need to be delt with, like hooking up the fanshroud (to heater box) tubes, welding the new J-tube to the sheet metal casing halves, adding the correct size outlet tubes  to the front of the heater boxes and lastly, reinstalling the cover that was removed in the 2nd step with the proper size flaps.  If you're installing a blank breast plate (as I am) then that will also need to be drilled for the heater tubes to pass through.

I wasn't able to use much of my reducers that the muffler shop made up for me, but I did cut the large end off each one and slip it over the heater box inlets, and slip my prefabbed tubes (that pass through the breast plate) inside the large end of the reducer. If you don't want to do this step, you can skip it and just use the factory clamps to hold the prefabbed tubes in place. I had other ideas and chose to do it this way. After I had that fitted up, I mounted the factory breast plate to see if the large holes in the breast plate lined up with my tubes and ducting (to the fan shroud).





I was able to drill the holes  in the breast plate where the factory holes were (the left side hole had to be moved slightly to clear the header tube), and weld the reducer sleeve to the heater  box once everything was in place and fitted correctly. The snips were used for final trimming of the breast plate holes.



With the different size flaps and outlet tube choices, I finally made up my mind to use the larger size (60mm) outlet tubes with the late model engine to early car tubes. This is the difference of the 50 and 60mm flaps. Obviously you can't use the 50mm flaps with larger 60mm tubing as they won't seal and heat will enter your car even when you close the flaps.


...Unless you have some more tubes made up (as I did) that use 2" standard muffler tubing, and have them flared out to approx 2-3/8". Believe it or not, this is just how my Denmark boxes were... they had a 50mm tube inside of a 60mm tube, so rather than butcher a hole into the outlet opening to allow for a 2-3/8" O.D. tube to fit, I went with the "quick and easy" solution. What can I say, I'm quick and easy!

Here I am "knocking down" the high spot in the tubing after it was stretched at the muffler shop. The welded seam where the tubing is welded (at the factory) created a tight fit for my body-to- heater box tube(s) so I used a double cut file to smooth the tubing seam for a better fit. I used back and forth "strokes" (some of you might be familar with these ) parallel with the pipe as shown (but the file was held at a 45 degree angle).


Notice that the flared tube will not slide into the heater box opening. To remedy this, I simply trimmed the opening a little bigger with my snips until the tubing slide inside. Remember that the other side heater box still has the factory tubing in place so I can use it to set the depth for the flap to seal against.


This is what it looked liked after I slid the outlet tube into the heater box opening for the first time (after trimming it to a rough length).


Notice that the opened seam needs to be trimmed to allow the tubing to fully "seat" against the heater box opening.


Here it is after trimming (and almost ready to weld!)


At this point the heater box tin should be loose on the J-tubes, and the outlet tubes should be loose as well. Now the last thing that needs to be done before any welding can take place, is the engine should be leveled (side to side) and all the tin and heater hose/tubes should be in place (and connected to the fanshroud) so you can make the (final) adjustments to the heater boxes before final welding is done.

And now a word from our sponsors. (you should have seen this coming, I have the attention span of a 2 year old when it comes to posting on the internet). Speaking of 2 year olds, I almost forgot to mention that I didn't do all this work alone...I had a little help from my friends.

My nieghbors grandson is a little upset that we took him off of the important job he was doing (rolling 1" rubber o-rings-which he calls "wheels"- down the garage floor and into the driveway while laughing histerically) to "assist in the heater box conversion.


The other friend that helped quite often-and yes she actually sleeps in that position :

[jeff denham]

great job STUD.   JD.

[J Dotson]

real nice man...i love all the pics! 

[youngnstudly]

great job STUD.   JD.

Thanks Jeff! It always means a lot to me when an industry icon like yourself notices some silly post like this and comments on it. I'm sure a lot of guys are thinking "What a cheepskate!" or "Good way to waste a lot of time!".  I guess I'm trying to make my car nicer to drive, while at the same time (attempting) to cover a topic that I have never seen done before.

real nice man...i love all the pics! 

I figured I had to include pics or this post would be even more boring! Plus you can't make up some of the stuff in those pics-especially ones of the dog-Priceless!

Anyways fellas/ladies, I have a few more pics to post that cover the end of this heater box conversion, but I am hoping to paint these heater boxes in the next few days and have them (and the engine tin) completed and installed by the end of this (coming) week. As you might have noticed, some of the stuff I did on these was a little back(a$$)wards, but I knew it would be a ton of work and I wasn't the most experienced person in the beginning. For those of you who are wondering, I plan to bead blast the heater boxes once they are finished and they will get a coat of BBQ paint for the time being, I didn't coat the inside of the sheet metal or the raw J-tubes, due to the fact that anything you put on the metal to seal it from rust (Fancy coatings, grease, weld-thru prime, dirt, paint, etc) are going to breakdown soon anyways, not to mention you'll have the pleasure of breathing the fumes on days when you're using the heater boxes. My neighbor and I did joke about making a finned area from cake batter or apple pie to go around the J-tubes so the car would always smell good and the heater boxes wouldn't rust.

The fins were another thing I went "back and forth" on when I was getting ready to do this conversion. The final decision was made to leave all the angle and finned do-dads out and build a simple set of heater boxes due to the fact that there is very little room inside of the heater boxes to begin with, they would get even hotter on the (HOT) California days (which is not good for the lifespan of the heads), and most importantly, others who have similar setups seemed to feel (for the most part) that the boxes produced enough heat for most climates. I have the same gloves in the car that I have had in there for over 10 years-A little chill don't scare me!

-Andy

[ALB]

Andy- Great job documenting the whole process! Almost as much work as the modification itself. And no, you weren't wasting your time.  Al

[Eddie Brown]

Great job.  This one should be made a sticky.  I know I've been thinking about this one for my CB hideaway set up. 

Love all the pics.  The kid and the dog pics were priceless.

Can't wait to see the finished product.

Eddie.

[youngnstudly]

I apologize for the delay (yet again!) in posting...I'm a liar, a thief, and a scoundrel (not really...But I have been called a womanizer from time to time ). Anyways I figured I would at least post a little more info for the short amount of time I have right now. At this point I have the boxes ready to bead blast but haven't taken the time to "dig out" the bead blast cabinet since that means I have to make room for it somewhere (so I can use it).

With all of the head and header nuts/bolts holding each heater box in place, as well as the lower "sled" tin screws and the ducting that comes from the fan shroud, I was able to make the final-final adjustments to the heater box tin before welding it to the J-tube. Here I check the gap between the cylinder head and the front of the heater box, the rear of the cylinder head and the heater box inlet (the ducting coming from the shroud), and the gap between the valve cover and the heater box. I was able to "slide" the heater box tin on the J-tubes to get both sides pretty even.


My right (passenger) side box didn't line up for anything (and I tried everything!) so I had to make the decision to "tap" the tabs on the bottom (that screw to the "sled" tin) inward and forward to get all my gaps proportionate from side to side. Welding and cussing were required, but you don't have to follow the exact sequence of steps I used. After they were "set" I tack welded the sheet metal to the J-tubes on the front and rear of each heater box (in about 3 places per end) with the welder set to weld 16 ga material-which is the thickness of the J-tubes. Remember to haul butt or turn the heat down so you don't "blow through" the 24 gauge sheet metal. And don't try to weld that gap or hammer it closed while it's loose.

[youngnstudly]

Tack weld the tin in 2 or 3 spots (as mentioned above) and "fit" the sheet metal to the tube a little at a time as you add more welds. Weld as much as you can until you get to the "gap." Then simply "fit" the tin some more and keep welding.
Vise grips work wonders for fitting the tin tight to the tube and you can add tack welds (before removing the vise grips) to secure the tight fit (if needed).





I laid both boxes down (after they had been tack welded and removed from the engine) and "fit and welded" a small portion of one box at a time on an end. Then (without "flipping" the box over), I went to the opposite end and "fit and welded" that end. Then I moved to the other box and did the same thing as I didn't want to get one end of either box too hot (from welding all the way around the tube). Less heat means faster dissipation and less chance of grabbing a hot weld! Plus you don't have to flip the heater boxes over 9 million times to check if you welded an area or not. You can even lay the boxes against each other and weld the same area on each box simultaneously.

[youngnstudly]

Now comes the easiest part of this whole deal! Refitting the covers and flapper (damper) blade assemblies to the heater boxes. Simply hook the closed portion of the cover, slide the cover over to "hook" the opposite side, and bend the tabs down. Check to see that the fit all the way around is tight.



After hooking the first side you can "tap" the cover until the factory notch "slips past" the seam shown here.


It should look like this on the "open" side.


I found it was easy to "clamp" the 2 parts together using the nail clippers with one hand, and my linesman pliers in the other to "tap" the tabs over. You can finish closing the tabs by squeezing the the open seam together with your pliers.

[John P]

GREAT POST! I LOVE detailed technical posts.   

Would you be cool if we turned this into a technical article to house in the Tech. Section? It would serve as an excellent resource for people in the future.

Cheers,

John
http://Cal-Look.com

[youngnstudly]

YES! Absolutely John! BTW does this make me the 3rd Jr. Associate Cal-look tech writer now (if so, do I get a company cal-look car to drive?). Can I get a corner office with a blonde secretary? Oh, and a bed for the black lab to sleep on? J/K. I am flattered/honored that this mess is actually worth something to somebody. And to think-I almost didn't post this info! Alright, I'll get back to work and finish this tech article while I'm still young. Stay tuned!

-Andy

[jgalka]

YES! Absolutely John! BTW does this make me the 3rd Jr. Associate Cal-look tech writer now (if so, do I get a company cal-look car to drive?). Can I get a corner office with a blonde secretary? Oh, and a bed for the black lab to sleep on? J/K. I am flattered/honored that this mess is actually worth something to somebody. And to think-I almost didn't post this info! Alright, I'll get back to work and finish this tech article while I'm still young. Stay tuned!

-Andy

This "mess" is awesome.  Thank you.  I will DEFINITELY be copying this to get myself a bit of warmth.
edit: I second the vote for a permanent tech article 

[youngnstudly]

This is what you have to worry about when positioning the outlet tubes and welding them in place. Make sure they are as straight and level as you can but also check that the damper (flapper) blade seals against the tube and is somewhat centered. I placed one tack weld on the top of each outlet tube so I could get all my measurements where I wanted them. I leveled the engine (as good as you can on an engine stand) by just taking measurements from the floor to each lower bellhousing stud on the case (until the numbers were within a 1/16") and I did the same using the exhaust studs. Once the engine was level I measured the outlet tube height(s) and then the inner and outer dimensions of the outlet tubes (using the gland nut as the center point). It's not rocket science and you can't expect totally accurate results, but it'll work. I also used my judgement and eyesight to level the outlet tubes with the rest of the engine (Ya gotta visualize, man... ).  Notice I used a level to see how far off (being level) I am. It's about a 1/2" difference between sides so I wasn't worried too much. Give a little and take a little until everything lines up to your satisfaction.


This is after a little grinding and bead blasting. At this point I would recommend not touching the bare metal (insert bailing wire loops as shown to hang the boxes), or if you wanna get fancy (which I do but can't afford right now! ) you clean up any welds that stand out and send your boxes out to be coated professionally (ceramic/HPC coated or Aluminum coated which I believe is cheaper) where the place doing the coating will deal with stripping the boxes to bare metal.

[youngnstudly]

This is the (almost) complete heater box after I applied 3 thin coats of the highest quality BBQ/Stove paint that my local hardware store sells. If memory serves me, it was like $9 a can and I barely made it with one can.


I did have a little trouble getting my grinders into the tight spots so I didn't grind all of the welded areas. Another problem that I ran into in a few areas was thin material from grinding (and I didn't even go that far down). I created a hole in a few spots while media blasting (I used walnut shells) due to the high pressure the process requires. So I broke out the welder-NOT! I painted the boxes after wiping the dust and media off the outside with a dry, clean shop rag. The plan is to dab a small amount of High temp black silicon over the holes and call it good (until I get tired of repainting the heater boxes 100 times and finally have them coated professionally. Notice I ground the welds down inside the pipe and I taped off the raw flanges. I shouldn't have any trouble getting a siliconed gasket to seal nicely against any surfaces! I'll leave these heater boxes outside for a few days (it's like 105 degrees here now! ) before I reassemble the linkage flapper hardware. I don't want to touch the soft paint and leave "prints."


At this point I am waiting for some misc. parts to show up so I can complete the engine (although I still have a few things I can do still) and after I recieve the rest of the exhuast parts, I'll fab up my muffler/tailpipe setup (which is nothing even close to the average store bought unit). I'll get a few more pics up once I complete the engine. Hopefully that will be in the next week or 2 . I need it for school!

[youngnstudly]

Random (closing) thoughts:

When I started, I had intentions of building the best set of 1-5/8" merged heater boxes that I could...Then reality set in and I realized how rusty the German boxes where, and what a pain in the (you know what!) the Denmark boxes where to disassemble. I ended up with a pair of heater boxes that are a "happy medium." I always had the plan of building a set of boxes with fins out of stainless steel and fully TIG welding everything. The outer casing would be stainless and every single piece of hardware would be too! Realistically, this is not cheap, or easy, but it would certainly be a "step above" everything else. That is the main reason I didn't go "all out" on my heater boxes, I knew later that I might build bigger and better ones.

Suggestions and ideas:

1) If you plan to build some 1-3/4" heater boxes using my methods, you won't have any more trouble fitting the larger pipe into the tin. I shaped my tin to the point where the larger tubing would've fit right in. the "front" hole needs very little shaping as you can see in my pics. I made the holes too big! CSP makes some 1-3/4" stainless tubes that you might be able to use for your conversion :

http://www.vwparts.net/CSP257100045.html

2) Welding the seams together is not totally necassary (in my opinion) but I felt that the fit between the halves wasn't that good to begin with. You could probably just spot weld every few inches if you wanted or use an actual "spot welder" like the heating and A/C fabrication shops use. I'd be more than willing to bet a local heating/ventilation shop in your area would spot weld your boxes together for you in 3 or 4 minutes for free if you clamped them in position and prepared the areas to be welded first. At work, we constantly had guys come in needing scraps or a little sheet metal project formed up. Take advantage of your resources, but don't be greedy or waste their time!

[youngnstudly]

3) Both of my boxes came out a little different (which is how they were originally when I got them) and if you look at the pic below, you'll notice that the bends on the replacement J-tube aren't quite the same as the factory tube, and that they "hit" the top of the tin in the second pic below. Your options to correct this issue are to "adjust" the tube by pounding a flat spot into it where it contacts the tin, or reshape the tin slightly which could create issues later when you reassemble the heater box halves. I chose to leave everything alone as I felt it wasn't a major issue. Keep in mind that it might create a problem if your heater box tin won't slide back and forth on the J-tube enough to get your sled tin screws in place. Or you might get a funny gap between the heater box and the valve cover (like I did).




4)The duct (hoses) that go from the fanshroud to the inlets on the boxes do not have to be fancy or elaborate! A simple foil tube and the factory hose clamp should work fine as long as you deburr the edges on your breastplate holes and run a grommet. I think you can even get the tubes in Stainless steel now. I chose to take the long road and add a ton of crap to the picture so I wouldn't have to worry about chaffing or torn tubes...but it is that much more work to do!

5)TIG welding would be more work (and a lot slower process then MIG) but you certainly won't regret the clean and precise beads that you get. Absolutely NO grinding required on any welds and no "blowouts" if you're careful and experienced. Fit-up need to be damn near exact though!

6) As I already mentioned, the inside surfaces of the tin could be coated (as well as the outside of the J-tube and flanges) but assembly would be tricky and welding the coating would ruin it. I know nothing about the coatings so you'd have to research that on your own and make sure that breathing any fumes emitted at operating temperature would not have longterm effects to your health. To my knowledge, none of the professionally applied coatings are permanent but some are much better at resisting flaking or peeling than others. Do your research!

[youngnstudly]

It's been a while since I last posted so I figured I'd update you guys on the prgress. I am just buttoning up the valvetrain so the right side heater box is not installed yet, and I still need to get an oil cooler and mount it, as well as rebuild the left side carb. Other than that the engine is nearly done and I should have it on the run stand in the next day or two. Tomorrow I am R&Ring the axles from my donor trans, to the KCR gearbox that is waiting to be installed.



Notice that I even welded the "venturi" onto the back of the shroud 


Funny pic of the neighbors dog sleeping-camoflouged on an oily gas soaked rag!


Took me like 5 minutes of working before I realized he was right next to me (and he scared the hell outta me too!   )

[catbox]

this is a graet thread for the person who like to do it, instead of buy it.

thanks for the info and i will end up putting it to good use.

[youngnstudly]

I was finally able to build the stainless boxes I wanted to early this year. We'll see how they work out after I get them installed on the engine (that isn't even built yet...haha). I've been going through (more) medical BS and haven't had my 1915cc parts balanced yet...Plus I don't have the single port heads yet. These are only 1-1/2" J-tubes and the flanges are 3/8" thick. All the sheet metal is scrap (read: free ) 16ga. 300 series stainless from work...back when I had a job. I have a few loose ends to finish on these but the major work is done. My old boss was very nice about letting me use all the equipment in the shop to build these so I had to get them done FAST! I ended up MIG welding most of the parts together due to the lack of time.

Andy