Worlds Fastest 36HP VW Challenge

[volksnut]

I would love to come out and watch...I usually go to N.C. at least once a year for vacation...How many air cooled cars are entered ...whens the best time to check it out first day or ?

[landspeedracer]

Their were 3 Volkswagens, 2 36HP Challenge cars and a fast 1500cc Ghia, at the Maxton, North Carolina meet in October. The ECTA(East Coast Timing Association)has officially designated the 36HP Challengers as specific classes after seeing the quality of the Challengers entered.

The USFRA (Utah Salt Flats Racing Association) has also posted a link for 36HP Challengers along with links to the ECTA and Texas Mile events on their web site located at www.saltflats.com. The 2008 guidelines for the National 36HP Land Speed Challenge along with Bruce Cooks new Stone Stock record of 68.50 miles per hour will posted on burlyb.com soon after the new year. We would also like to congradulate Tom Bruch and Gaylen Anderson for posting the fastest 36HP speed of 91 miles per hour at Maxton in October. This is the fastest speed acheived by a 36HP bug in over 45 years and only 3 miles per hour under the record for dual carb cars set by Mel Ellis and John Gosvig in 1962. Tom acheived that speed with a "single port" 36HP dual carb engine featuring his recently developed "Bruchrasa" rebuilt cylinder heads.  Hopefully the record will fall next season.

Till then, God Speed......................Burly

[bvilletom]

We raced at the October 07 meet and set an ECTA record of 91.649 MPH in H-FRS with gas in the VW Beetle Sedan.  I am 3 MPH short of the Gossig/Ellis all time Sedan record several decades ago but it is possible now with the single port motor.  We are turning 6,000 RPM in the gears and it starts to lay down at approximately 4,300 in the 4th gear and then pulls slowly upward.  A bigger cam and larger carbs will be a better combination for next year.  The engine has approximately 15 full bore passes now between the drag strip and Maxton LSR racing trails and has not blown any oil out.  In addition, the valve adjustment is still within .002 " of assembly.
 
There were two other very nice VW's at Maxton, the '51 split show car of Bruce Cook that set a new stock 36 HP record of 68 MPH and the 1500 cc all out race Ghia of Roger Jones who had tuning problems but still ran in the 130 MPH range.  A couple with a very nice oval VW Judson 36 HP sedan showed up Sunday to watch the race.
 
All the VW crews had a photo session, a cake cutting for Bruce's accomplishments and then we partied into the evening.  I met great people, new friends and had a great weekend of racing.
 
BvilleTom

[bvilletom]

The green sedan is the Anderson/Bruch 36hp challenge 91mph car.
The Ghia is the Jones 1500cc H Altered all-out race car.
The '51 Split is Bruce Cook's car and current record holder in the bone-stock class at 68mph.
This was at the October 07 meet at Maxton NC.


bvilletom

[landspeedracer]

Want quick info on the National 36HP Land Speed Challenge? Check out the Utah Salt Flats Racing Association(USFRA) new 36HP Challenge link at www.saltflats.com for an excellent overview of the Challenge, it's rules and guidelines. You can also find links to the East Coast Timing Association(ECTA) where in 2008 they will be featuring 36HP specific classes following the Challenge guidelines with the exception that 3 point seat belt for the driver will be mandatory.

Watch the burlyb.com web site in early 2008 for all the latest and greatest(and fastest!) 36HP Challenge information or post your questions here for answers.

Burly

[landspeedracer]

36hp Challenge Ghias
36hp Chalelenge Ghias

Friends of the Challenge, this note is to advise you of a new 36hp Challenge class for 2009. Due to numerous requests, we are adding a Ghia category to the National 36hp Land Speed Record Challenge next year. All the basic guidelines of the Challenge will be the same with only the word bug being replaced by Ghia to differentiate any records set. Any speeds reorded by Ghia bodied cars will "NOT" qualify as bug records but will be seperate in all areas.

Ghias are aerodynamically more effecient than bugs and should result in speeds at least 5 miles per hour faster than bugs with the same 36hp motor. The santioning bodies overseeing the events will  not recognize Ghia records. These categories will be for 36hp Challenge recognition only and I will provide a vintage trophy for the fastest 36hp Karmann Ghia bodied speed in 2009.

If you would like more info on the 36hp Challenge, pleaase visit www.burlyb.com for direct email and phone information. Ghia guidelines will be added when the 2009 information is posted at the end of the year but getting on our email list will keep you updated on new 36hp Bug and Ghia Challenge information as it is formulated and as speeds are recorded.


Till then, God speed....................Burly

[VWGLENN]

 Revmaster ROACH Engine  --> Frank Responds -->
 

  Hi Glenn.........Frank here.......... I'll try to give you some of what
 I remember about the old 36HP Based VW engine.  The first one was made up as follows:
  The case was a 25HP aluminum one from a very early VW.  I have only seen
 two of them in all those years.  The aluminum is much stronger than the
 magnesium alloy.  It was hand lapped and line bored.  Porsche Cylinders had
 new stud holes milled in sides of cylinders.  Crank was 1600cc Roller
 Porsche with Porsche roads.  I cut a very light flywheel and added a LUK
  diaphragm  clutch, small diameter with heaviest spring.  The cam was an
 Isky profile.  The heads were Denzel with much larger Valves
 and the ports were enlarged and polished.  These were excellent heads from
 Denzel.  We added Chromemoly push rods.

 On the outside, I was lucky enough to have an excellent Header guy,
 Welder, Bob Sanchez of 4 Tuned Exhaust as a partner.  Bob built 180 degree
 exhaust with megaphones and an intake manifold to support the large
 (by VW standards) Pepco supercharger which is a roots type blower.  On top
 of the blower was a box with two Stromberg 48 Carbs bored out and jetted for
 alcohol.  The blower was Later driven by a flat cog belt & a Vertex magneato
 on the engine.  In a stock weight '57 VW with street tires at Fontana or
 Colton, the fastest it went was 13.41 sec at 107 and change MPH.  I used to
 burn methanol with some nitro methane as an igniter and tallulene added.  The
 chemicals came from Francisco Labs in Glendale, Calif.
 This engine had a dragster like lope to it at low speed and had a
 very distinctive sound which I can best describe as tearing linen !

[VWGLENN]

  A Great Thread indeed, also to add, Deano took the Inch Pincher to Bonneville in late 64 with a Hot 36 Engine and went 121MPH and the record was 114 at that time but on the 2nd or Back-up Run a Valve Spring broke and that ended his quest for any record, all this is covered in the old Peterson Magazines, here is that photo and the Caption  -->
 ( The Engineered Motor Products Inc. EMPI Volkswagon Built, Tuned and Driven by Dean Lowry has a highly modified 59 VW Engine displacing 118.5 Cubic Inches, built originally for Drag Racing the VW also did a good job at Bonneville with a top time of 121.45 MPH, the previous record in this class was 114.28 The car is a 56 Model. )

[fiatdude]

Very cool stuff here

[Jake Raby]

I recently had a customer come my way that wants to see what we can do for him with a 36 HP base engine, for the 36 Challenge. We are currently working on a pair of engines for him to run in two different classes, one with Okrasa heads and the other with modified stock 36 HP heads.

This is the most challenging project that one can take on, because no parts are readily available that will make the numbers needed to get these old records broken after almost 50 years.

I fully expect to scatter parts all over the place on several ocasions while doing this :-)

[Tom Simon]

The core group are very friendly guys who want have some fun witht he old 36hp engines.  I'm really glad to see this taking off, I wanted to build something but unfortnately my timing is off, otherwise I'd be all over it.

In fact, I have 2 complete w/sheetmetal carb to muffler core engines, 2 more sets of good head cores, and a crank that need a good home. Anyone interested contact me by PM.

[Jake Raby]

Tom,
It is really taking off, since I started the current project I have had another inquiry for a similar project based on the 36 HP engine. The fun part is literally having to start from scratch with most everything.

Land Speed Racing in general has peaked my interest after assisting the Peanut Special with his H/GALT records.. I'd like to see a LSR class based on the 1600 D/P engine, I think it would be an economical way to go fast and have fun.

What I love about Land Speed racing is the fact that the rules are pretty much open, its the last true form of hotrodding left... I have a 1500cc destroked, big bore twin plug 356 engine on my dyno today thats being used for LSR in a 912... It is one radical little beast!

[Tom Simon]

Tom,
It is really taking off, since I started the current project I have had another inquiry for a similar project based on the 36 HP engine. The fun part is literally having to start from scratch with most everything.

Land Speed Racing in general has peaked my interest after assisting the Peanut Special with his H/GALT records.. I'd like to see a LSR class based on the 1600 D/P engine, I think it would be an economical way to go fast and have fun.

What I love about Land Speed racing is the fact that the rules are pretty much open, its the last true form of hotrodding left... I have a 1500cc destroked, big bore twin plug 356 engine on my dyno today thats being used for LSR in a 912... It is one radical little beast!

Have you ever made it out to the salt? If not, you owe it to yourself to go sometime, you'd be in 'hog heaven' with all the non-conventional thinkers and equipment, and not able to sleep for a week.

[Jake Raby]

Not yet... We are trying our best to make it in 2009!!

[VWGLENN]

  It is truly "Mecca" for all Gearheads, from the Salt to the Rods all over town, things like Motorized Bar Stool to Massive Tug Boat Engined (16V71) Big Rig that goes over 300MPH, to 300 MPH Door Slammers and the Old Bikes and Roadsters in town and Running the Salt the whole week is a Must Do and due to no Direct Compition so most all the Racers talk Freely and hold back little, the Vintage stuff is amazing and the Large Hotels hold Films and Gatherings with Guys like Andy Green talking about his quest to break the Sound Barrier, and the amount of Old Pioneers is amazing ! 
Today the Rat-Rod guys and their Period Rods is also a Must see, makes one want to get home and build a Dollar a Pound Roadster with a VW Front End !!  LOL..... !

[Jake Raby]

LSR is the most laid back racing venue I have ever experienced.. Everyone is battling the clock, not each other and there are so many classes that you not have anyone running in yours at an event.. Usually when we go to the track for a Road Race it takes every minute to dial the car in for changing conditions and trying to find every tenth of a second because the competition is so tight...

The whole concept behind making a 50 year +old 36 HP engine defy convention is just plain cool... Its really is true hotrodding and most anything goes!

[Art Thraen]

I have invited some of these 36hp racers to jump on the dyno here at Salt Lake to tune,,, I hope somebody takes me up on this.

It seems funny that some people are afraid of the dyno.. I have an engine dyno at the shop and if they can find 4 hp its worth it...

[Tom Simon]

I have invited some of these 36hp racers to jump on the dyno here at Salt Lake to tune... if they can find 4 hp its worth it...

no kidding!  Most Bonneville guys would practically kill for a chance to tune at altitude and desities closer to Bonneville conditions

[Jake Raby]

With LSR I have found its no so much the HP that is made, but the RPM capability of the engine.. Today I made one change to the 1500 (58X 90.5mm) 356 engine I am finishing up and it was good for 500 more RPM... Now we are making power to 9,000.. Every time we have added RPM on the dyno, the car has gone faster.. even in one instance where we lost net HP, but still gained RPM peak..

Some people are afraid of the dyno because they don't want to break the engine before it gets to the track.. I'd much rather break it at home, and if it'll break at home I'd rather save my entry fee and fuel expenses to show up at the event..  Some people use the track as their dyno, but they could go so much faster, and do so so much quicker and easier if they used the dyno as a tool..

[KAFUR1]

this is a kickass thread   

[bo]

seems like everyone has found something to do with their otherwise junk blocks because i have thrown many a 36hp case into the fire to see the shiny sparks

[Jake Raby]

seems like everyone has found something to do with their otherwise junk blocks because i have thrown many a 36hp case into the fire to see the shiny sparks

Yep... I had 20 cases sitting in my container doing nothing for years, but I found an NOS case to build up... I did end up cutting a few cases apart to study the various strengths and weaknesses of different case codes....

[landspeedracer]

Deanos Bonneville Attempt

Recent photos made available from two fellows present when Dean made his 1966 Bonneville record attempt in the Inch Pincher show
the motor used was a 40hp engine, not a 36hp as suspected, and fitted with dual 48 Webers mounted on homemade intake manifolds and Okrasa 40hp dual port heads. The top speed he achieved on a one way pass was 125.86 miles per hour.

Thanx to Glenn, Carter and Tom for all the help in clarifying the events of that day.

Burly

[Matt Schlicht]

From our local paper.  Great job Tom.
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081107/NEWS/711069918/1002/NEWS

[bo]

do you guys think that they would allow a dual overhead cam setup in the unlimited class becuase there is a guy that makes as41 cases dohc and i think it could be applied to this

[1054044]

58X 90.5mm

58mm stroke? How'd you get that? I heard a story of a drag car from the 70's that ran a 40hp crank made into a 59mm. I always wanted to learn more about that, and what it takes to actually shorten the stroke.

[landspeedracer]

No, I do not think a dual overhead cam conversion would be tolerable in the 36hp Challenge. But their is no reason you could not do it for giggles and the personal and technical challenge, still run in the 130 MPH Club events and I am sure you would gets "lots of attention" for the effort.

When thinking 36hp Challenge, keep in mind it is for fun, a low buck, hands on type of racing. Those wishing to go crazy wth their motors, they can always build a real race car that meets actual racing requirements and run anyway, irregardless whether it is in the 36hp Challenge. The 36hp Challenge is low speed, low buck, minimal effort where you can still be recognized for your achievement.

99 percent of all 36hp Challenge racers will have top speeds under 100 miles per hour, and many will be under 80 mph. Where else in the racing fraternity can you go those "slow" speeds and still be competitive.

Burly

[bo]

i realize this and i love the idea of the event and would love to kinda raise the bar a bit

[landspeedracer]

36hp Challenge in New England-new race track!

 
 I am please to let you know a new land speed racing event located in the upper northeast in Limestone, Maine, just beside the Canadian border will present it's inaugural event on the weekend of August 1st and 2nd. Presented by the Loring Timing Association on the retired Loring Air Force Base, this great location will provide one and one half miles of top speed acceleration. All Volkswagens street cars, both air and water cooled, are welcome to race in the under 135 mile per hour Street classes. In particular, those folks following the 36hp Challenge will be glad to know all classes of 36hp engined VW bugs, buses and Ghias are welcomed and will run against ECTA records from the Maxton Mile in North Carolina and the official International 36hp Land Speed Racing Challenge record history.



For further information, go to:   www.lta-lsr.com   for Loring Timing Association specific information.

                                                     www.landracing.com for general LSR updates and links.

                                                     www.ecta-lst.com for East Coast Timing Association specific information

                                                     www.usfra.com for Bonneville USFRA specific information and

                                                     www.texasmile.net for Mid-America specific information



Please come out and spectate or participate in racing for top speed. For further information on the 36hp Challenge go to www.burlyb.com  . 


Burly

[landspeedracer]

36hp Challenge in New England-new race track!

 
 I am please to let you know a new land speed racing event located in the upper northeast in Limestone, Maine, just beside the Canadian border will present it's inaugural event on the weekend of August 1st and 2nd. Presented by the Loring Timing Association on the retired Loring Air Force Base, this great location will provide one and one half miles of top speed acceleration. All Volkswagens street cars, both air and water cooled, are welcome to race in the under 135 mile per hour Street classes. In particular, those folks following the 36hp Challenge will be glad to know all classes of 36hp engined VW bugs, buses and Ghias are welcomed and will run against ECTA records from the Maxton Mile in North Carolina and the official International 36hp Land Speed Racing Challenge record history.



For further information, go to:   www.lta-lsr.com   for Loring Timing Association specific information.

                                                     www.landracing.com for general LSR updates and links.

                                                     www.ecta-lst.com for East Coast Timing Association specific information

                                                     www.usfra.com for Bonneville USFRA specific information and

                                                     www.texasmile.net for Mid-America specific information



Please come out and spectate or participate in racing for top speed. For further information on the 36hp Challenge go to www.burlyb.com  . 


Burly