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Sam
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« on: May 24, 2009, 09:13:59 am » |
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I'm beginning to hate my 48 dells, it seems like i can naver keep them tuned, My buggy runs awesome then like crap, then it floods. They act like an on/off switch, fast or flood, anyways....
What EFI systems are yall liking, I don't have $$$ for the CB quick tune, but I'm looking at the CB competition injection or the CB kit where you use all your own hardware like intakes, filters, linkage. I rode with an old guy with the old CB injection and loved it, he had 2 knobs and a 02 sensor, man it was sweet.
Anyways, any EFI advice would be appreciated as I'm going to change over or do something here.
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embarrassing V8 guys since 2002
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Marty
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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 03:10:54 pm » |
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Save up your money and get the quick tune.
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Marty
staggsracing.com
m-specmotorsports.com
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Sam
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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2009, 10:57:18 pm » |
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Whats the advantage to quick tune? I can't justify spending another 3K on a engine I already have 5K in.
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embarrassing V8 guys since 2002
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perrib
Junior
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Posts: 116
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 01:35:12 am » |
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Whats the advantage to quick tune? I can't justify spending another 3K on a engine I already have 5K in.
It is just money!. The quick tune is supposed to be adaptive. If it is antthing like the adaptive FI on the Audi/Vw 1.8t it should be worth every penny. There are a several of feed back systems that you can build be it seems like the first one requires a lot of fine tuning unless you can copy someone elses and avoid the mistakes. |
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Squirmn German
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 07:52:04 am » |
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Or you could buy a good set of carbs. =)
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J Dotson
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 09:43:10 am » |
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Or you could buy a good set of carbs. =)
Spanish Weber 48 IDF's....Get new ones. I can check some price's Tuesday through my contacts...  |
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« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 09:45:07 am by J Dotson »
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S/P4884
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 11:39:52 am » |
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I ran a set of 40 dell's in the sand for years with no problems. Seal up the air filters good and run a good fuel filter. Boncing around in the sand you need to have a throttle stop on your pedal to take the stress off the linkage or you'll never keep the carbs in sync.
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Precision Engineered Performance
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Glenn
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 01:57:49 pm » |
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I suggest you speak to Art Thraen. He'll be able to help "fix" them or just rebuild them like new.
My engine with Art rebuilt IDAs idles at 800rpm, has instant throttle response and I haven't touched them in 2 years.
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Dean N
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 03:03:43 pm » |
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electromotive
jeff newcomb is a distributor, email for specifics.
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KAFUR1
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 03:17:51 pm » |
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mega squirt with edis .
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Sam
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2009, 10:23:35 pm » |
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I guess I'll call ART and see what it would take to make my dells like new. Then go from there!
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embarrassing V8 guys since 2002
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bugninva
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2009, 09:18:40 am » |
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Whats the advantage to quick tune? I can't justify spending another 3K on a engine I already have 5K in.
it's purdyful ( ) and a complete setup....the quicktune isn't 3k, unless you get the turbo system, then it's a bit more than 3k   one of these days I'll actually get the engine built and installed in a car, then I can give feedback...LOL |
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martin
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2009, 11:21:10 am » |
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Check out my thread with the pics, everything coming out of that shop is Electromotive powered.
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68 White 2.3 efi turbo 194hp/240tq RWHP no boost!
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JVance
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2009, 12:23:34 pm » |
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Check out my thread with the pics, everything coming out of that shop is Electromotive powered.
FWIW, the AutoTune function on my Tec-GT has NEVER worked. If this guy can't tune a set of carbs, he'll have headaches trying to tune a TEC ecu that fails to function as advertised (and he'll go crazy trying to resolve the problems with spotty tech-support and a non-existent community of users). With the exception of the CB QuickTune, most EFI systems are not a magic bullet. IMO, you'll spend the same amount of time tuning your EFI as you would tuning carbs. |
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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martin
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2009, 12:28:36 pm » |
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I think he's having problems KEEPING the carbs tuned while running his buggy hard. Maybe efi will help with that. Do you still have the Tec-GT? For sale?
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68 White 2.3 efi turbo 194hp/240tq RWHP no boost!
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JVance
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 12:45:38 pm » |
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Do you still have the Tec-GT? For sale?
$1500 and I'll rip it out of my car this weekend. (plus I'm still out of the perfectly functional Tec-II I traded-in to Electromotive for this POS) |
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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martin
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 12:54:38 pm » |
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Not much of an upgrade then. I have the Tec 3R.
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68 White 2.3 efi turbo 194hp/240tq RWHP no boost!
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JVance
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 01:12:56 pm » |
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Does the Tec3 even have AutoTune? I thought WinTec3 didn't have that feature (I could be wrong)...
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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martin
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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2009, 01:43:01 pm » |
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It has auto tune as well. That just gets you started. Here's the page showing the differences between the two. The software is the older version for the Tec3r compared with the TecGT, but I don't know all the differences. You can see the comparison of the outputs in this page, note the Tec3r supports full sequential on V8's, for example, but I think they are quite comparable other than that. I think the tecGT is cheaper. http://www.distributorless.com/products/tec.php |
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68 White 2.3 efi turbo 194hp/240tq RWHP no boost!
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JVance
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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2009, 01:49:34 pm » |
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FWIW, I think that WinTec4 may soon be released for the Tec3. I know a lot of people rave about this software, but it really is not much different than WinTec2 WRT to functionality (I could care less about graphics when certain functions simply do not work).
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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martin
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2009, 02:12:37 pm » |
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Can you run the 3 version on your GT?
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68 White 2.3 efi turbo 194hp/240tq RWHP no boost!
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bowen71
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2009, 02:44:27 pm » |
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Who is running CB Quick Tune EFI? Is it worth the money? $2200 is a lot of money if it dont work like it should.
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2110 44's 42x37.5 L6, 8.2:1, KCR Super Street Plus
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JVance
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2009, 03:08:13 pm » |
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Can you run the 3 version on your GT?
Newp. The first release of WinTec4 would have random errors that would render a .bin file uneditable. So, you had to create a new .bin file, input all of the parameters in manually, then go back to tuning until the next time the error popped up. I finally installed the 2nd release of WinTec4, and it solved that file-save problem. But for a while, it was consistently killing the engine at higher RPM on boost when the EGO was turned on (even though it was set to be deactivated at those RPMs and boost levels). Turning EGO off would fix the problem. The datalogger routinely has playback issues...often, all of the control buttons ("play" "frame forward" "frame back", etc) will not work at all. So that leaves me with picking through the datalog with the mouse...which sucks if it is a long datalog. I've got the latest release of WinTec4, and I'm hoping it (and the firmware upgrade) solves a number of these inconveniences. Don't get me wrong, the car runs and I drive it often (120 miles of commuting by the end of the week); but I've been very limited in making real progress in tuning, and like hell I'm going to throw any more than 7psi at it until I can get the inconsistencies of this ECU straightened out. It's not something I expect out of a $2000 ECU, and several of these issues are not isolated to my experience... |
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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martin
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2009, 04:40:34 pm » |
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I'll ask about the oxygen sensor problem you describe (EGO). What percent of feedback is it set at for closed loop? From what I remember (a couple years ago now) my engine was set to 5%. Good luck with the upgrade, no guarantees with that firmware as you know. $2000 for the ecu? that's more than I paid for mine I believe.
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68 White 2.3 efi turbo 194hp/240tq RWHP no boost!
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JVance
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2009, 05:26:02 pm » |
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Either 5 or 10%...I've turned it on and off and changed the parameters so many times, I can't remember what I last set it to. $2K for ECU, coilpack, and harness was what Electromotive quoted me. They gave me a $500 trade-in (so they told me) on my Tec-II (which only needed a new crank position sensor  ), so it was $1500 to my door. |
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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Dean N
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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2009, 08:30:17 pm » |
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hopefullly we wont have any issues with it, would hate to have to build a new motor ecspeciallly after just getting the car running haha....
the main thing i like about the electormotive setup is with it being an inductive discharge ignition, just makes sence all around... ecspecially when you ad up what it would cost to buy a dist, coil packs, dis 2/4, etc. if you went with different company.
thx for posting your experiences
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ctach
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2009, 08:33:20 pm » |
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Check out DRD'S new EFI, looks like he is on to something! |
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DRD Racing Heads
DWG International.com
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JVance
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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2009, 08:49:57 pm » |
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hopefullly we wont have any issues with it, would hate to have to build a new motor ecspeciallly after just getting the car running haha....
the main thing i like about the electormotive setup is with it being an inductive discharge ignition, just makes sence all around... ecspecially when you ad up what it would cost to buy a dist, coil packs, dis 2/4, etc. if you went with different company.
thx for posting your experiences
I wish you guys the best of luck with it. There are a number of features that keep me hanging on, hoping that this newest software/firmware release does the trick...such as the flexibility of the general purpose inputs and outputs, especially the PWM output for controlling a boost solenoid. But I'm continually discouraged by the extremely small user-base online and seeing other folks run into the same problems (like corrupted .bin files and AutoTune not functioning). |
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Thanks Rocky Jennings, DRD, and Pauter -Stripped66
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Sam
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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2009, 09:08:59 pm » |
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yea, tuning isn't the problem, I had an expert try and tune them... the needles are non responsive and the carbs are even almost unresponsive to changing jetting.
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embarrassing V8 guys since 2002
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John S
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« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2009, 12:47:25 am » |
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J Dotson
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« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2009, 09:42:47 am » |
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Now that looks very interesting and many options to choose from....hum? |
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John P
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« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2009, 11:19:56 am » |
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There is no doubt that EFI is cool, but get it because you want to, not because you're having problems with the carbs. If you're having problems with your Dells, then you either have a problem with your carbs, engine or your linkage.
My 48 IDAs were rebuilt by Art approximately 10 years ago. I've touched them 4 times in 10 years of regular street use:
1. When I first installed them after the rebuild: A. Getting the idle mixture right for my engine, and B. Fine tuning the main jet selection (Art got them to within one main jet size, as promised).
2. When I had to send one carb back a couple of years later after a minor carb fire. This was NOT Art's fault, or the carb's, but a result of my wife behind the wheel. A long story, but let's just say that she has a rather aggressive, who-give's-a-*&*$ driving style.
3. Fine tune the jetting 5 years ago due to an increase in displacement, compression and cam.
4. 2 years ago when I had to replace an idle jet holder.
I ran 44 IDFs for years before that and never had to touch them.
You need to address the source of your problems, not write off a perfectly good design. The 48 DRLA is about the best carb design I've ever worked with, IMHO (even better than the IDA). Great power and smooooooooth.
I echo Glenn's comments - call Art.
Good luck.
John
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'67 Cal-Look Bug
Cornpanzer's
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Ohio Tom (DdK)
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« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2009, 09:16:05 pm » |
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I agree with John's comments.
I have been watching this post for days.
My advice is to fix your carbs.
Why? If you think that switching to EFI will make life easier, you are mistaken. You will just have a new set of problems that may leave you farther behind then you are now.
Either way, I recommend that you take the time to learn about Carbs (or EFI).
There is a learning curve that many people don't take the time to get thru.
I have seen too many guys build a combo and are somewhat let down with the performance. They think that they need to change everything in order to solve thier problems.
I'm here to tell you that running the same combo and working on tuning for several years will always result in a better running combo.
Case in point: I have been running my same1904cc motor for 4yrs now. I have been working with the drawthru sidedraft Dellorto carb this whole time. As I learn more and tweak things, it runs faster and faster every summer. This year it clicked off an 11.99 @ 115mph. A full 1/4sec faster than it has ever run.
It's all in the tune...
I like the simplicity of a carberator because I know that I can always fix it..... because I understand it.
Can you say that for those EFI systems??
If not, then you may be trading one problem for another....
Just my thoughts...
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Ohio Tom Simpson. Home of the Killa' Bee.
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Sam
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« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2009, 11:53:57 pm » |
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The old CB EFI i saw was as easy as setting up a set of dual carbs, and the old timer that had it told me he would never run carbs again
Explain whats so hard about it....
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embarrassing V8 guys since 2002
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turbotype1
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2009, 07:24:29 am » |
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Never mind what others are saying about EFI. Lose the carbs ....Go EFI and NEVER look back...I've run my Haltec for over 8 years now and besides a fuel pump issue I haven't had ANY problems. I also ran one of CB's earlier EFI's 10 years ago. It was easy to set-up . But , was very limited in tuning capabilities and didn't control any ignition timing.
As far as tuning EFI goes, it isn't any harder that a set of carbs, It will control ignition timing better that ANY distributor could ever dream of AND can pull in some fuel economy.
If you have access to a chassis dyno it will cut your tuning time by a ton but it can be done with-out.
The one thing that I have learned playing with EFI is that I will NEVER own Carbs again... ever
Pete
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Pete Paradis
J&P ChassisWerks
Portsmouth,NH
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