Super Squish Pistons?

[Big Keb]

What is the verdict on the "Super Squish Pistons".   Do they really work or not.  I dont know anyone personaly running them. 

[JVance]

They work.

[Kevin Reynolds]

I have a set NIB if intrested! 94C's for long stroke narrow engines

[so67vw]

Not this again......... Please........ I'm begging....................

[JohnConnolly]

they work as advertised if installed as we recommend, and properly tuned. Those that say they do not work have never used them (imagine that), or haven't properly tuned them.

[Kevin Reynolds]

I know they work! I have driven is cars that have them! One in fact was a RKC car that drove from So Cal to Vegas competed, and then drove home!! The NIB set that I have just doesn’t fit into my plans any longer!!  

[Steve Arndt]

See my post from three days ago about tuning my squishy motor. 

On road tuning this weekend. Haltech, wideband, etc.
http://www.cal-look.com/forum/index.php?topic=7962.0

Let me know if you have any questions.
s

[Big Keb]

How will they run with a roller cam set up?  Do you  need nickie cylinders?
My engine I plan on building is  94x88,I have a set of 52x38 Simpson heads,Berg 58`s. Since this my last naturally aspirated engine I will ever build I want to make it a blast!

[home boy]

really interesting!!
I wanna know reason why it wouldn't over heated.
nicky reduce temp or squish reduce temp??
if cast iron barrell with squish piston reduce temp, ii willing to use it.

[Eaallred]

I've got a video clip of a squishy motor in a full bodied street car doing a 12.45 @ 106 (not his "best" run either!) in the quarter up here in Salt Lake City. If I can find a way to load it up somewhere i'll post it (I have dial-up at home and it SUCKS!). This car is running pump gas and runs cool on the street with 13.5:1 compression with a power pulley.

Our track elevation is "4400" feet. But check out our "corrected" altitude that we run at:
http://www.rmrracing.com/2005/drag/drag-strip.htm  Yea, 7,000 to 11,000 foot! Our air bites. It must be the salt. ;-)
This squishy motor would be running deeeeeeeep into the 11's at Sacto no doubt. Again, full bodied street sedan.

Not saying they're for everyone, but they do work from what i've seen first hand.

They run just fine with regular Mahle barrels. No need for Nickies or anything fancy.

[Steve Arndt]

I run ss pistons and cima iron cylinders.  It runs cooler than when it was 9.4:1 with mostly the same combo (bigger heads then and carbs instead of EFI and 13.1:1 cr).

s

[cbigpwr]

I've got a video clip of a squishy motor in a full bodied street car doing a 12.45 @ 106 (not his "best" run either!) in the quarter up here in Salt Lake City. If I can find a way to load it up somewhere i'll post it (I have dial-up at home and it SUCKS!). This car is running pump gas and runs cool on the street with 13.5:1 compression with a power pulley.

Our track elevation is "4400" feet. But check out our "corrected" altitude that we run at:
http://www.rmrracing.com/2005/drag/drag-strip.htm  Yea, 7,000 to 11,000 foot! Our air bites. It must be the salt. ;-)
This squishy motor would be running deeeeeeeep into the 11's at Sacto no doubt. Again, full bodied street sedan.

Not saying they're for everyone, but they do work from what i've seen first hand.

They run just fine with regular Mahle barrels. No need for Nickies or anything fancy.

Bring it to Sacto and watch it ping the ring lands out of it. It's common knowledge that you can run higher compression @ higher elevation, Super Squishe or not.

             Anthony Chicca   Heads Up Performance

[vdubkid]

Noooo not again,I'm getting flashbacks!

[JohnConnolly]

if I brought it to Sac there'd be more accusations on something, what else is new. There are plenty of fast street squishy motors running 13:1 at sea level on 91 octane, mine is nothing extraordinary.

[so67vw]

if I brought it to Sac there'd be more accusations on something, what else is new. There are plenty of fast street squishy motors running 13:1 at sea level on 91 octane, mine is nothing extraordinary.

Yah but even at 13.1 there not as fast as a lot of 9.5 cars..... Why bother..... There are tons of fast lower compression cars out there..... Just not for me..... I'd rather have a choice in the other components..... 

[JohnConnolly]

see?

[James2]

I'm running 11-1 on pump gas at about 1500 ft above sea level.

Some "tricks" that are common knowledge, but few people take time to do-
Set motor up with max squish AKA min deck hieght
Remove all sharp edges in the chamber to include spark plug threads. The requires you to actually thread the plug into the head and having a look before you bolt it on.
and round the edges of the spark plug electrodes. Many forget to this.

Bring it to Sacto and watch it ping the ring lands out of it. It's common knowledge that you can run higher compression @ higher elevation, Super Squishe or not.

 Anthony Chicca Heads Up Performance

[Eaallred]

Talk to Ghia Jason or Robert Kong about thier squishy motors then. They're at sea level, run low twelves in full weight Ghia's, and are able to drive all day long on the highway. In fact, Jason drove his Ghia in the street car challenge at the last Vegas race (cruised from So-Cal to Vegas at 70 - 75mph the whole way through the desert!). IIRC, he did it with a power pulley installed to keep the temps up as well!

Like John said, do any of you people that have bad things to say about these pistons have ANY direct experience with them? I'd be willing to bet that if a big so-cal shop came up with them, they'd be all the rage, but hey, what does anyone from Utah know, right? Get real.

[so67vw]

I guess if I had paid $700 bucks for a set of pistons and then had to spend even more on the rest of the motor to make it work, I'd be deffending my actions too..... I'd rather take that $$$ and put it some place that realy makes a difference..... 

[James2]

I never heard anybody with a set complain, except one guy who had a set for sale, he said he was running .080 deck, which just kills the whole idea of squish.

If I had extra $$ to spend, I would run a set. 

[JVance]

I'd rather take that $$$ and put it some place that realy makes a difference.....

Makes a difference? Lets see...make the same power, lower head temps and lower fuel consumption. I guess the difference is a more efficient engine, which has been demonstrated and documented (and available for anybody to evaluate) on a back-to-back comparison with flat-top pistons.

If I wanted more power, I'd spend the extra money on further head work and displacement.

[JVance]

I never heard anybody with a set complain...

Well, there was that guy who decided to convert the pistons back into flat-tops...

[home boy]

i also interesting in really cooled at traffic jam? i experience large port with p&p head reduce head temp at high way cruise, but in traffic jam head always too hot.
anyway all times, all condition squish piston bring low tempreture, it will good for street car.

[Steve Arndt]

I don't run them because I want a ton of power, that wasn't the goal of my engine.  They are installed in my daily driver after all!  I'm after a strong runner, emission legal, perfect running street machine that puts out 200 hp on pump gas through 40x35 valves.   

[bugnut]

I think--and this is my optimistic side speaking, here--that it's only a matter of time (or maybe not) before people fully understand the merits of this design, which, in my own humble understandings, is that you CAN have power AND reliability as well as cool running.  It's kind of like the stupid and childish Type 1 vs. Type 4 debate, not ALL standards of quality are measured by an engine or product's ability to run at the speed of light in the quarter mile.

Personally, I think anything that allows an antiquated design like the air-cooled VW to not only produce far more than original horsepower but also run reliably on the street is extremely innovative, especially in an industry as tiny (compared to other automotive aftermarkets) as that of the VW scene.

The bottom line is this: VW people (as a rule) don't like to spend money, which is why the market is innundated with cheap, third-world country parts.  But in many cases you HAVE to spend $$$ to do something right.  Who cares if you can't go willy nilly with the combo?  If it works, it works.  
Off my soap box, and I realize yesterday I went the other way with the distributor debate but I've watched some of these arguments go on for some time and wanted to pipe in.

[Kevin Reynolds]

I think--and this is my optimistic side speaking, here--that it's only a matter of time (or maybe not) before people fully understand the merits of this design, which, in my own humble understandings, is that you CAN have power AND reliability as well as cool running.  It's kind of like the stupid and childish Type 1 vs. Type 4 debate, not ALL standards of quality are measured by an engine or product's ability to run at the speed of light in the quarter mile.

Personally, I think anything that allows an antiquated design like the air-cooled VW to not only produce far more than original horsepower but also run reliably on the street is extremely innovative, especially in an industry as tiny (compared to other automotive aftermarkets) as that of the VW scene.

The bottom line is this: VW people (as a rule) don't like to spend money, which is why the market is innundated with cheap, third-world country parts.  But in many cases you HAVE to spend $$$ to do something right.  Who cares if you can't go willy nilly with the combo?  If it works, it works. 
Off my soap box, and I realize yesterday I went the other way with the distributor debate but I've watched some of these arguments go on for some time and wanted to pipe in.

Has to be the most intelligent post I have ever read on this forum!!!

Except for my posts of course!

And it could probably be applied to most every post with a debate regarding parts!

[bugnut]

Lol, I figured I would probably ruffle some feathers (hopefully not), but I just don't understand some why some debates must get so heated.  Myself, if I had an abundance of money, there's tons of VW projects I'd love to dabble in...Type 4, squishies, nikkies, etc.  There's a lot I have yet to learn, but I do enjoy the learning process...;-) :-)

[Kevin Reynolds]

Bugnut, I WAS SERIOUS!!!

[richiew]

Lol, I figured I would probably ruffle some feathers (hopefully not), but I just don't understand some why some debates must get so heated. Myself, if I had an abundance of money, there's tons of VW projects I'd love to dabble in...Type 4,

Now you are just being rude!!!  :-) only kidding,oh & I am a believer,I have seen them work,cheers richie,uk

[JohnConnolly]

whining is hearing folks complain of the air in Vegas, which is like adding N2O to us here.

The pistons work, and the price has dropped $100 on them recently. I have reported my back to back to back tests, and the engine ran the same but 100F hotter head temps with Cimas, and the cimas needed race fuel while the squishies run pump without issue. I don't know what all this "special equipment" that's being mentioned here is all about. You do have to "tune it", LMAO. Does anyone here really expect to build a 200hp engine without tuning carbs and ignition? There is no difference in the amt of work, it's just slightly different.

This thread proves my point. It's really sad that our hobby is such that you have to be the fastEST to make anyone believe. The simple fact is that if you don't want to believe, it doesn't matter what facts are put forth, you aren't going to believe. We may as well argue about Roe vs. Wade. This is why our hobby is stuck in the mud. There are those that WANT to be reliving the 70s, that's fine. What is not fine is arguing against progress and development WHEN YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. The guys that converted the squishies to flat tops never finished tuning them, case closed. Another guy that had issues with them installed them upside down. Oops! We have learned a lot about these over the years, the state of tune the motor wants is different then a flat top motor. The secret is now we know exactly what needs to be done, where before we were figuring it out as we went, which took some time.

I would also like to point out that there comes a point in engine development that spending more $ on headwork is not going to get you anything. If you already have the best heads, THEN WHAT? Guys argue all the time that "they are going just as fast with only 9:1, so I'm not impressed". Well imagine if they had those heads and were at 13:1 and ran cooler, only an idiot would conclude they are going to go slower. I'm not at all slamming guys that are going fast with "mild" compression, I'm pointing out that they'd be even faster and cooler if they'd get rid of flat-tops. Those that criticize and haven't tried them are talking out of your ass.

[vwpride58]

SO who exactly is needed to make these SS work right? Special combustion chambers, cam? Obviously tuning.

[Big Keb]

I didn`t mean to stir a hornet`s nest with this post,I was just wanted some answers to satisfy my curiosity.  How about one of the "known" engine builders do a battery of test on the squishies. He can test for full drag,street or maybe turbo applications.   Any way just a thought.

[Dee Berg]

I THINK IT SAID 4200 FT. ACTUAL ALTITUDE,,, AND THE NHRA CORRECTION FACTOR IS 4400 FT.... BACK IN THE LATE 70'S AT THE BONNEVILLE DRAGSTRIP,,, IN SALT LAKE CITY THEY ALSO USED THE 4400 FT CORRECTION FACTOR FOR THE NHRA DIVISIONAL RACES!!!!    WHICH MEANT THAT A 11.90 CAR (A/MC INDEX) WAS AROUND 12.35 AT SALT LAKE,,,, YOU CAN FIGURE ABOUT A TENTH PER 1000 FT.!!!!!!    SO IF YOU MEAN DEEP INTO THE 12'S YOU'D BE RIGHT!!!!!!!  THE OTHER THING IS THE WEIGHT BREAK WAS 15LBS OF WEIGHT FOR EVERY INCH OF ENGINE,,,   YOU'D HAVE TO TAKE A PASSENGER TO EVEN BE CLOSE TO WHAT GARY RAN UP THERE ALMOST 30 YRS AGO!!!!   AND HE DID RUN INTO THE 11'S UP THERE W/ A 1.9L!!!!!  YOU SHOULD BRING THAT MIRACLE OF SCIENCE ON DOWN TO SAC.,,,, MAKE A PASS & RUN IT ACROSS THE SCALE!!!!   DOUG...

[Jason M]

I had a 2332 squishy motor when they first came out. Just pancake cooling in a fastback. I am NOT not one of the guys John mentioned BTW. I was around 11.5 to 1, 044 heads, Web 86B, pump gas. The motor ran VERY cool and I could drive it all day long. I felt the limit was the valve interference with the piston "dome" It limits your choices in cam selecton (unless John has some new combo's now). It also requires you to rethink the way of tuning a VW motor. Get a Wideband O2 and fully adjustable distributor and start from scratch.

This is not a max power combo that you have to tow to the track on the weekends because it won't make it 20 miles without overheating (thats my current engine). I sold my pistons to Dave at Proformance and rebuilt my 2332 with 12 to 1, FK89, DRD Comp Elims and it hauls butt, makes killer power but I have to put $6 a gallon 100 octane unleaded in it. It all depends on what you want your motor to do.....it always about compromises....but I'm gonna go turbo next and try to have it all!

The pistons work but they aren't the answer to saving money on race gas for your S/G motor.

[so67vw]

I guess the thing to do is, bring a Squishy car and a flat top car down with the same $$$ into them and have it out....... HP to HP...... Realy test them....