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az67calbug
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« on: September 22, 2011, 03:16:39 pm » |
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2011, 03:46:22 pm » |
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Congratulations on the new project! I love ragtops!  The 135s will look like that on the wider BRMs. I don't like that look. While 135s are "period correct" for a cal-looker, they do nothing for the daily driver. If you plan on driving this car, you might want to look into at least 165s. I'm not sure about the center caps though. Sometimes the taller caps are for clearance with the spindle/nut/drum dust cover cap. Check your clearances before you order new ones. Good luck with your project! Scott Faivre |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2011, 04:09:06 pm » |
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Thank Scott. I thought about actually running some 165s up front. I believe the rears are 215s..
I know the front beam has been cut 5.5 inches. Other than that I haven't got under there and checked it out. I hope I can run those flat center caps cause I don't like these sticking out. I've seen others running flush ones so I hope its just something the PO did for some other reason.
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az67calbug
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 09:37:25 am » |
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I tore into the front end yesterday. There was an alignment issue. The drivers front wheel was at say 11 O'clock while the right tire was fine along with the steering wheel. Figured since the narrowed 5.5 beam it was a tie rod adjustment. Found that driverside tie rod too short. I had another that came with the car. So I should be able to fix it. I noticed there are no upper shock mounts. I'd assume that is a bad thing and I need to address this!?
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 11:30:34 am » |
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It's your car and everyone has their own vision as to what a hot VW is, but I personally HATE the super narrowed beam look. It is the most perfect example of form over function. Consider this: You're cruising on the highway at 65+ MPH, and you need to swerve to miss something in the road, or an A-hole that just cut you off... With that narrowed beam, your turning radius is increased (slower reaction to your steering wheel correction) and when you swerved, you hit a pothole. Now you have no shocks and a massive bump steer problem. With the narrowed front end, the car could be come very unstable and cause you to leave some serious skid marks in your briefs! ... but Hey, their car looks cool!    Narrowed beams definitely have their place. When you convert to a disc brake set up, a lot of the time the kits will push the wheels out an 1"-1 1/2" per side. If you put on a 2 or 3" narrowed beam, it brings all back in to a stock location. If it were my car and my daughter riding in it with me, I'd junk that beam and get a new/used one with shock towers. When I first bought my convertible, someone lowered it by yanking leaves out of the beam. I had massive bump steer on the car too. I junked all that crap, and bought a disc brake with dropped spindle kit and stuck on some new KYBs. The front end road like a cadillac! I love it! But now that car is apart again, and due to my new wheel and tire combo, I'm in need of a 2" narrowed beam to prevent rubbing on the fender lip. Good luck with project! Scott Faivre |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 12:50:05 pm » |
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Thanks Scott. I'm a rookie when it comes this. So thank you for your information. I do LOVE the stance of the bug. I wouldn't mind it be maybe a inch or so higher. Would you recommend I go with a 2" narrow beam now cause I do plan on doing a disc brake conversion at a later date.
Would a adjustable front beam that is narrowed 2 inches provide the height I'm looking to keep?
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 04:07:57 pm » |
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Does the car have dropped spindles? Remember, the narrowed beam does nothing to the height of the car. Depending on how low you want to go, spindles alone may be able to get the height where you want it AND retain a stock comfortable SAFE ride. If that's still not low enough, go with an adjustable beam. Then you can really dial in your height to your liking. When I was younger a bunch of my buddies "slammed" their cars for the look. I rode in them and HATED it. Their cars couldn't turn into a dirveway, or go over a speed bump without scraping the pan. I'd wince as if in pain when they'd do that. They'd just laugh. Their piles of crap are what people are restoring now, and asking their buddies, "Can you believe the previous owner jerry-rigged the chassis like this? What a moron!" My car was always either cal-look raked, or 1 1/2 - 2" lower all around. I never needed narrowed beams or any fancy off set wheels to get the stance I liked. My buddies would then ride in my car and the only thing that would occassionally scrape was my dual quiet pack exhaust. Needless to say, when it was time to caravan the vws on a road trip to the car shows, everyone wanted to ride with me!  Including all the girlfriends! Ahh, those were some great memories in central Pennsylvania! Scott Faivre |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 01:53:28 am » |
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Is that why no one else is replying to this!!? Do you have a picture of your bug that can give me an example of how it sat? Was it a stock beam and lowering spindles only? I really want to do the right thing. If I have to ditch this beam, toss it in the trash.. get a new beam, new tierods.. so be it. |
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2011, 04:15:35 pm » |
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This is my vert with the stock beam and dropped spindles. Wheels are 4.5 early porsche fuchs with 135s.  But here it is now...  It's not big of a gap. The new wheels are 17" and the tires are 205 50 17s. The gap looks that big due to the fact that the body is stripped and there's no weight on the axles. Maybe some of the other members can post pics of their beam, spindle, wheel/tire combos. Scott Faivre |
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2DubTech
Junior
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Posts: 209
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2011, 05:00:02 pm » |
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Totally awesome projet!!!!!! Take a bunch of pictures of your progress, always cool to look back and see where you have come.
When I went through my bug, 61' link pin front end, I found that the front end was lowered, like Scott had mentioned, by removing torsion leafs (sp?). I went through the whole front end and put new tie rods and ends, new torsions, new king and link pins, and drop spindles. I used the CB Performance drop spindles to get that stink bug cal look (2 1/2" drop) and found that it actually moved the wheels out maybe like 3/4" or so each side. Maybe it is the wheel offset not really sure. I have 135s on BRMs. You can tell under hard braking the fenders rubs on the wheel slightly.
I have an unmodified front beam with drop splindles and Cofap shocks. I like the stance of it but if I would have known that the front wheels would stick out a little bit more than stock I would have maybe had it narrowed an inch or so to bring it back to the stock location, to avoid the tire/fender rub.
Drums all around, 135s up front, 215/65r15 out back. No handling issues or locking up the brakes, that being said it would be nice to have some wider tires up front though for handling/evasive manuveres like Scott had also mentioned.
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A&G's Racing
Build 4 torque talk about horsepower
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az67calbug
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2011, 12:55:19 am » |
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Cool! Thank you guys. I think I will ditch this entire front end and get a 2 inch narrowed from beam and run some CB drop spindles. I'll do it right. This just seems like something a 16 year old would have done. Since I am a rookie at this and you've been helpful. Here is my thanks! If you keep helping, I'll keep posting!  |
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ALB
Junior
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Posts: 113
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2011, 10:43:12 am » |
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A pair of 175-60's (23 1/4"), 185-60's 23 3/4")or 185-55's (23") would keep the "look" and compliment the 215's you have on the rear quite nicely. If you're going to drive the thing at all you'll be much happier with a slightly wider tire, as 135's don't put enough rubber on the road to brake safely in an emergency, and of course they handle waaay better! I've done 135's (it was a fairweather driver) and was never happy with them, I (and every one else) lived with them because there weren't the tire size choices we have today. With disc brakes it was easy to lock up the front end in a panic stop.
I've never been a fan of a super narrowed beam for a car that has to function either; it does look neat but as was mentioned, the resulting handling characteristics are not what you want in something you're going to drive a lot (or put your loved ones in). I believe offset spindles add 3/8" to each side, so even with the wheels having a slightly different offset a 2" narrowed beam will be enough.
With the 215's in the back you may find the rear brakes are not as effective as you'd like; one solution is type 3 rear drums. I did the swap on both my cal-looker and a baja bug and it worked like a charm on both cars.
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Immaturity is forever!
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VdanielW
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 01:37:13 pm » |
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Here's my '65. 17x7 for the street tires. front end is narrowed 2" per side. front tires are 205/45/17.  Here it is when we're going to the track. front tires are 145sr15 on welds rims. the offset of these rims cause a slight rub at full turn.  |
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 03:34:08 pm by VdanielW »
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az67calbug
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 04:28:17 pm » |
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Thanks guys!
Beautiful cars. I want to redo the brakes. For a budget right now, I want to do all new WC and drums/shoes. Since I am doing the brakes, I would like to take your advice and do some type 3 drums in the rear. Is it as easy as buying the drums, shoes, clips, bearings etc and installing them? Or is there something else I need to do?
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2011, 06:03:13 pm » |
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Oh yeah, here is my other car.... (I've been so focused on my convertible build this one gets ignored!) This is a compressed and unedited test photo from a photo shoot I did a few years back.  This one still has 135s, since its a "drive a few times a year" car and several trips to the dragstrip. The wheel is turned a bit for effect, and the white inner fender surface catches the light, but it sits really nice.  Scott Faivre |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 06:23:55 pm » |
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Did some welding this week.    Should be ready for final sanding and then a re-prime this weekend! |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 10:55:24 pm » |
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Started doing body work! I love this stuff. I could do this all day. But not for a living. haha   |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2011, 11:39:22 am » |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2011, 08:47:35 am » |
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az67calbug
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2011, 09:40:45 am » |
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2011, 10:42:27 am » |
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No moss is going to grow on that VW! You're working at a quick pace!
Scott Faivre
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 10:45:45 am by QuickKafer »
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az67calbug
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2011, 10:56:33 am » |
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Now I have to get rid of this stupid front end and get a new beam. I may paint the inside and start the rewire process first.
I am not sure if I want to do my own wiring, or get a kit. I'd like to keep the wiring to a minimal.. don't need high beams, dont' need horn.. etc.. or should I do all that just for the sake...
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Donny B.
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2011, 01:27:49 pm » |
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I did my own wiring on my '66. Get a kit it will be a lot less confusing. If you get a stock harness everything will fit correctly. If you buy a kit the cool thing is all of the wires are labeled as to function or destination which makes trouble shooting easier. Is the car going to be street driven? If so then you should have high beams and a horn; not that big a deal. If you have questions I am in Phoenix and you can look me up.
Don Bulitta
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Donny B.
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73 Kafer
Newbie
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Posts: 2
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« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2011, 06:07:26 pm » |
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Hats off, great job you are doing on your '65. I'm sure your next post it will be painted. Mark |
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QuickKafer
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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2011, 04:09:02 pm » |
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Now I have to get rid of this stupid front end and get a new beam. I may paint the inside and start the rewire process first.
I am not sure if I want to do my own wiring, or get a kit. I'd like to keep the wiring to a minimal.. don't need high beams, dont' need horn.. etc.. or should I do all that just for the sake...
Get a Wiring Works complete new harness. It will be the best thing you could do for the almost 50 year old wiring. I put one of them in the white car above and bought another for the convertible I'm doing up now. The wiring works kits have all the correct colored wiring and can be done in 1 day. Just don't pull your old one out until you are ready to install the new one! I got my first one at a show, and my second harness came from here: http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Bug_replacement_VW_wire_harness_p/wiringharness%20bug.htm A 65 sedan is $209 with free shipping. The time and frustration savings alone is well worth the $200 bucks! Good Luck, Scott Faivre |
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Chip Birks
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 03:17:23 am » |
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Looks like a fun project! I just saw this for the first time today, so please excuse the lateness of my photo. This photo is of my 60, at the time it had 135s up front and 195/60s in the rear. I've updated the rear to 215/65s and the front will most likely be getting a set of 165s or 175s. My beam is stock width, with adjusters welded in for height selection. The key to the tucked look mine has is in the wheels themselves. They are setup with a "0" offset, as well as only 3.5" wide up front. They rub on the fenders when turning hard and hitting a slight bump. Otherwise the setup works pretty good. Stock spindles, stock drum brakes.
Regarding the wiring, if you are not a wiring guru, just go for the premade harness. They are super nice and everything has a place. Simply hook up your existing switches and other electrical hardware, and you should be good to go. Keep up the good work!
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