Mis-behaving valve keepers....not closing up all the way?!

[Garrett]

Okay, so as part of my little 3500 mile maintenance effort on my 2276, I am swapping the springs out from standard VW duals to CB 650's.   As I suspected The old springs have seen better days.  I can feel the difference between a couple of them with my fingers and a few of them are obviously not completely square anymore.

So last night I decided that I was going to install the 650's - I did both heads and was noticing that the keepers weren't closing up all the way?   WTF is up with this?  On 7 of the 8 keepers I have a gap between them?   In the pictures you can see on the far-right that's the one that's closed up and sunk into the retainer (presumably) - "properly" - the others are more close to flush with the retainer.

Is this one of those things that will "pop" into place once I put the heads back on and compress the valves with the rockers, or is there something wrong here?   I tried disassembling a few of them last nght after I noticed what was going-on (the last one I did went in "right" - which made me take more notice to the others) but got the same results.   I decided to shut 'er down pretty late last night and figured I'd pick it up in the morning....

I really need to bolt that spring compressor down to something and get a little cheater-pipe for the handle!    My arms and hands are a bit sore this morning   

-Garrett

[Terry Hoogstins]

Seven are right and the one with the keepers touching each other is a problem  , you want the gap so you know the keepers are locked to the valve stem and not floating if the keepers are touching each other , so you better find out whats wrong with that exhaust valve set up

[Eaallred]

Seven are right and the one with the keepers touching each other is a problem  , you want the gap so you know the keepers are locked to the valve stem and not floating if the keepers are touching each other , so you better find out whats wrong with that exhaust valve set up

Ditto. Not supposed to touch. If they are, you'll wear out the keeper grooves on the valve stem.

[Garrett]

Looks like I've got my answer.  Not sure how this happened - I am guessing a little piece of debris got between the stem and the keeper somehow?

Something else to add to my parts-order list.

[Garrett]

I take it I'll be looking for a set of CB 1533's?

"SUPERGRIP - Single Groove Valve Locks - set of 16" - http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=670

-Garrett

[Dominick Luppino]

If mine don't have a gap, I make them have one!

[Eaallred]

I use the belt sander to make the gap if needed.

Funny story about keepers for me. I was pulling my heads apart in the garage one day, the wife was keeping me company. My spring compressor was having a hard time with my K-800 springs, and as I was assembling my heads, it popped loose and shot one of my keepers out the garage window. Shattered the window, and the keeper went somewhere out into the lawn. Somehow, before I lost the big picture, my wife calmly walked out of the garage and proceeded to look for the keeper. All I could do was think "what a waste of time" while I fumed like a 3rd grader. I cut the lawn 3" high, the keeper is gone and i'm going to miss the local race that was coming up. She wasn't out there for even one minute and came back in holding it asking "is this it?". No joke. To this day, I still have no idea how she possible found it out there, lol.

[Donny B.]

Gotta love a woman like that!

[volksnut]

well I was at my brothers house one day and remember his buddy's wife was over to collect the borrowed mower ( expensive Honda they co-owned) she went to install the bag and somehow her wedding ring got hung up and ripped the diamond right out of the setting.....you guessed it, right into the grass it went....well after about 10 minutes I found it....made her day

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

Hey Garrett.  I haves seen exactly the same thing happen to keeper like that.
It is from the retainer tagging the tip of the valve guide. Usually from valve float.
I recently had to service a motor that only had a few thousand miles that suffred from the same thing.
We had to replace the keepers, retainers, and valves.
Put all the parts unde the microscope if this is what has happed.

A simple cutting back of the valve guides and upgrading to better springs is for sure on your list.

[Garrett]

Wow - Trying to understand what could be happening to do that.....

You're saying since the spring isn't controlling the valve well the valve is getting "launched" off the tip of the rocker and the keeper is smacking the valve guide?

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

Yep, you got it.
the custome's motor had a fresh set of CB heads with single springs and Engle W-120 cam. (not a good match).
The keepers looked just like your picture.
Also, the retianers started to "give up" thier tapers.
The valves had big burrs on the keeper grooves.
We made the descision to replace all questionable parts even thou they only had a few miles on them.

[Garrett]

Ordered some new keepers and retainers from CB today.   Will give the valves the once-over again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.    I know they all extracted easily through the guide (no hanging-up and tearing the inside of the guide-up) so that's a good sign that there aren't any burrs in there....

Thanks for the info.....

I don't understand why a set of hi-performance heads like this would be assembled and sold with springs that aren't up to the task.