Kolbenschmidt Bearings - Brazilian and?

[pupjoint]

I bought some KS bearings for a stock 1600 rebuild off a guy in Samba without realising they dont make them in Germany anymore. Written Brazil on the box.

Today i went to a local parts store and got another set of main bearings, but surprisingly nothing is written there.

Box is smaller and also packing has KS blue coloured paper back.

the number stampings on the bearings appear to be better.

what bearings you guys use nowadays?

[drgouk]

Wallace, i just use the brazilian mahles, seem to be measure up ok, its all they have locally. I have seen some of those brazilian ks rod bearings, they are a bit rough in finish. Xin Zhong Auto parts on Lavender St, Singapore use to have a good stock of german Ks.  (65) 62913083 is the number. Mr Yap,Tell them i sent you!

[Mark Harney]

I was recently given a set of Federal Mogul bearings that someone had leftover from a build.  He'd bought them before he realized he needed to have his case cut.  These were 0.25 cut for the crank, and all else standard.

I measured them, and the ID was 2.159".  The crank journals are 2.155" for first cut on a crank.  I measured my DPR crank and found that it was on the money at 2.155" exactly.

So then I pulled out a set of Mahle bearings and the ID was 2.157" (actually just a hair under that), which is in line with what VW's lower boundary of journal clearance is supposed to be.

While the Federal Mogul bearings were in range, it's a good bit of difference and would affect wear, pressure, etc.  I'd skip 'em in a heartbeat now.

I have a set of standard KS bearings that are probably Brazilian I should check out and report back on.  I'll let you know.

[J Dotson]

German KS on left photos and Brazilian on right....
Got my German from Buggy Warehouse in San Antonio for $39...Rimco wanted $71.
It should be printed on the label as below...unless packaging been changed....
I saw that ad on thesamba and after talking to him new they were Brazilian KS...
Your box on right above with no markings looks to be the smaller box German made...

[Mark Harney]

I just measured my standard KS Brazil thrust bearing, and the ID was 2.168".  I'm interested to see what the German ones measure.  Anyone got some they can check out?

[Sam]

I thought loose was desirable for high performance, like loose as in the bottom side of in tolerance.

[Mark Harney]

Not to me.. some things maybe.. bearings isn't one of them IMO, unless you have a good reason for it.

[martin]

I brought that up in another thread. What is the ideal clearance? I was told loose, like .005" was better for performance, but not the rods.

[UnNaturalAsperation]

I hate to break this news to those that don't already know, but KS bearings are now the same as Mahle, which is also federal mogul and Clevite. Save your money and get mahle because the KS is the exact same bearing. Try to find an old OE german set of KS if you want the best. The good KS bearings will have KS stamped on the back of the center main NOT just printed on it. I read another thread on this  a while ago maybe on Samba?

[Mark Harney]

I brought that up in another thread. What is the ideal clearance? I was told loose, like .005" was better for performance, but not the rods.

I would subscribe to that for piston skirt clearances.

I hate to break this news to those that don't already know, but KS bearings are now the same as Mahle, which is also federal mogul and Clevite. Save your money and get mahle because the KS is the exact same bearing. Try to find an old OE german set of KS if you want the best. The good KS bearings will have KS stamped on the back of the center main NOT just printed on it. I read another thread on this  a while ago maybe on Samba?

The Mahle and the KS that I have do not have the same dimensions.  Maybe what I have (or at least some of it) predates that.

[J Dotson]

I hate to break this news to those that don't already know, but KS bearings are now the same as Mahle, which is also federal mogul and Clevite. Save your money and get mahle because the KS is the exact same bearing. Try to find an old OE german set of KS if you want the best. The good KS bearings will have KS stamped on the back of the center main NOT just printed on it. I read another thread on this  a while ago maybe on Samba?

Pretty sure you are wrong about some of that. Kolbenschmidt moved some operations to Briazial to compete with Mahle (who took over Mete Lev) just like those KS pistons and cylinders that came out a few years ago and everyone was so excited, remember that? Maybe not as you hav'nt been a member for a long time. Mahle is good and the Brazialian KS is good too and of course the old German KS is the best.

[J Dotson]

Those bearings at the top post on right are German...I found an old box of .25mm rod bearings and label is just like that...Does not say made in germany anywhere but open the end of the box and printed on one flap you should see "Flaschgelegt gehore ich zum attpapier. danke" some thing aboput recycle paper...Brazialin would not print that in german.

[pupjoint]

Thanks David, I will check out the shop in Singapore out.

I went back to the shop again today, and bought some German KS rod bearings and German KS cam bearings. I took a close look, yeah they have the KS logo engraved onto them. boxes also have the word GERMANY on them.

I asked the shop guy, he told me he orders them through another distributor once every few months. So i think German KS are still being made.

will post pics when i get home later.

[UnNaturalAsperation]

Pretty sure you are wrong about some of that. Kolbenschmidt moved some operations to Briazial to compete with Mahle (who took over Mete Lev) just like those KS pistons and cylinders that came out a few years ago and everyone was so excited, remember that? Maybe not as you hav'nt been a member for a long time. Mahle is good and the Brazialian KS is good too and of course the old German KS is the best.

This happened around 2005. I can't say what will be in what box but you will find actual Mahle bearings stamped with the metal leve logo in KS boxes. I have never had a Brasil KS bearing but my guess is that those would not be Mahle stamped. KS is however related to Mahle now.

[J Dotson]

This happened around 2005. I can't say what will be in what box but you will find actual Mahle bearings stamped with the metal leve logo in KS boxes. I have never had a Brasil KS bearing but my guess is that those would not be Mahle stamped. KS is however related to Mahle now.

Wrong...unless you can post some link to the industry supporting your alegation....Mahle and Kolbenschmidt are not onder the same ownership and are separarate manufacturing Co'.

KS Gleitlager GmbH
 Am Bahnhof 14
 68789 St. Leon-Rot
 GERMANY

http://www.kspg-ag.de/index.php?fid=106&lang=3

KS Bronzinas Ltda.
Rod. Arnaldo Julio
Mauerberg, n° 3920
Distrito Industrial n° 01
13460-000 Nova Odessa
S.P.
BRAZIL

Now mahle is ever growing and has merged with many companies.....
http://www.mahleclevite.com/

[volksguy]

We sell both, German and Brazilian KS bearings on certain sizes, who's looking for what?

[J Dotson]

We sell both, German and Brazilian KS bearings on certain sizes, who's looking for what?

Read pupjoint post at the top...those bearings pictured on the right he did not know if german or what...they are german.
How much are your german KS bearings?

[pupjoint]

thanks J dotson. German they are.

anyway here are more pics of the rod and cam bearings i got yesterday.

[pupjoint]

[pupjoint]

the german words mentioned by Dotson

[J Dotson]

Outstanding Pupjoint! Where did ya get those german bearings...cam too...ya ya! How much also? 

[UnNaturalAsperation]

Kolbenschmidt and Metal Leve had a partnership in bearing production. I don't know the industry insides and outsides. Metel Leve is now part of Mahle. Don't know what the actual relationship is. All I know is that I have not seen a german made KS bearing with a recent manufacture date. The ones in the german box have had the metel leve stamp and have even had mahle printed on them. They were marked the same as Mahle. I have also seen the metal leve stamp and KS printed on the bearing.  I don't see tons of bearings. I read about the issue some where and checked into it for my self. I'm not here to post others info or links to the industry to prove my self right or prove anything to anyone here. You all should go do some checking your self. The world is ever evolving I may be right a year ago and wrong today. Just sharing what I have found.

[pupjoint]

Outstanding Pupjoint! Where did ya get those german bearings...cam too...ya ya! How much also? 

Outstanding Pupjoint! Where did ya get those german bearings...cam too...ya ya! How much also? 

in a chinese spare part shop right in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. price is much higher that what i paid in Samba due to taxes etc.

after conversion approx USD 52 for the main bearings, USD 22 for cam bearings, USD28 for rod bearings.

[UnNaturalAsperation]

Those are pretty good prices.

[J Dotson]

Kolbenschmidt and Metal Leve had a partnership in bearing production. I don't know the industry insides and outsides. Metel Leve is now part of Mahle. Don't know what the actual relationship is. All I know is that I have not seen a german made KS bearing with a recent manufacture date. The ones in the german box have had the metel leve stamp and have even had mahle printed on them. They were marked the same as Mahle. I have also seen the metal leve stamp and KS printed on the bearing.  I don't see tons of bearings. I read about the issue some where and checked into it for my self. I'm not here to post others info or links to the industry to prove my self right or prove anything to anyone here. You all should go do some checking your self. The world is ever evolving I may be right a year ago and wrong today. Just sharing what I have found.

I am not trying to start something but you don't have your facts straight and this is how BAD INFO gets started just by what you think or heard and don't have the facts...It was not Kolbenschmidt aquiring Met Lev it was Mahle/Met Lev....KS moved some operations to Brazial in response to offer a simuliar bearing to compete with the market....I am sure of MY FACTS...I have been in the Air Cooled Parts and Repair industry for over 13 years.I deal directly with several  Warehouse Distributors and kept up to date of facts...NOT on rumors and
deductions...etc. I think its best not to post information as fact if you are not 100% sure of what your talking about.Remember the "Mahles Are Not Really Forged" post.....? 

[UnNaturalAsperation]

Facts change daily. You are not as in the loop as you think if you did not know that KS and Metel leve had a partnership in bearings. I am not posting  mis information. I open bearing boxes that are KS boxes and they have MAHLE/metal leve bearings in them. I may not know the whole story, but I know an original german KS bearing from a mahle/metal leve bearing. I also notice in the pics above there is no date on some of the boxes. If it will help you J Dotson PM me with your address and I will send you a box of unopened bearings. You can open them and see the Mahles in there for your self and decide what the facts are. Or do some internet searching or something.

[volksguy]

Well sell ours for $49.99 German, and Brazilian KS for $32.99
In German we only have the 111 -198-461 STD STD, and the 111 198 467 which are .030 on the crank, 1mm thrust cut, STD linebore.

[pupjoint]

found an even older set of KS STD main bearings, german and brazilian, both steel backed. mahle in the pic also steel backed. brazilian also.

this is the older brazilian KS, packing is also different than the newer ones today without steelbacked

[pupjoint]

some pic showing the newer brazilian non steel backed KS main bearings and german stell backed


brazil

[jtgh]

oops my bad
the m2 shells come bowed out
so i must check them , in case, at full torque. (bore gage)
after insertion and full 25ft/lb main stud torque the go round or rounder.
SOP.
my feel testing shells over the crank is a bogus test.