Instroduction and questions on building a Cal looker

[I8AV8]

Hi, I have been browsing this forum on and off for the last 2 years but only signed up today.  I'd like to say hi and some history of me and aircoleld VW's before I punt my question/s  For those that are not interested in intro's feel free to skip to the bottom of the post for my questions.

I'm turning 42 this year  and have owned VW's since when I was 18. My ownership of VW's goes back to 1953 Type 1 to 1980 Type 2. I believe at last count this may be around 30 aircooled. At present I own a 1965 Type 2 and a 1964 Type 1. I started buying VW magazines and modding my VW's since 1988. I owned a Squareback in 1988 with an 1835, wild cam and a 1953 Beetle, stock. You get the idea.

ok, my love affair with the Cal look started with the Custom Beetle book. Great cars from G BERG and the other historic names. forever got my attention. My VW mods never went too far. Some BRMs here, a nose down job there were as far as I got. My splitty is lowered with a 1915cc.

The goal: Going forward I want to restore and build a VW beetle, to Cal Look specification. Real old school. I this to be a car I cherish and be part of the family. I am selling the bus soon so this should net me AUD $40,000. The balance I have remain after the Cal Look build will go towards a new kitchen 
 
 The basics are there for me.
1. Nose down
2. Nerf bars
3. Recapped slicks with threads
4. 2.0L plus engine
5. One piece windows
6. No side trim
7. Cal Look window rubber
8. Single factory colour paintjob
9. Hillborne mechanical injection
10. and so on


Questions:

1. I like the early pre 67 shape but am also thinking balljoints and IRS. Should I look at installing a post 67 balljoint pan and IRS it ?
2. How are launches from the start line affected with the use of IRS as opposed to swingaxle?
3. Should I go 4spd or 5spd? How does this affect straight line performance?

Thanks for having a look. I would really appreiate some feedback. As time goes on, I will start my project and will definately have more questions.

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

69' or later pan gets you to IRS.

As far as the ol'e IRS vs Swing. Here is my take on it:
Swing there are few options. You gotta buy a good diff and a good set of axles and you are all set. Skip the cheap stuff.

IRS, there are several levels of upgrades that include cheap used stock (thing) and Porsche (944) parts, all the way upto huge setups that can handle some serious HP ($$$).

4speeds are more reliable and cheaper to rebuild if you brake.
5speeds are nice for a road car that you don't plan on blowing up someday.

[John P]

Welcome to the Forum. You clearly have a lot of experience, and it sounds like you will be building a sweet car.

You will get more responses if you indicate your intended use:

Street?

Commuter? Highway use? Putz around town? Estimated annual mileage?

Strip?

If so, how often? How fast do you want to go? Your willingness to maintain it?

Both?

Always a tough compromise.

While I've done maybe a dozen-or-so passes on my '67, it's a street car, which is where most of my experience lies (plus some light autocrossing), so take it for what it's worth. 

In answer to some of your questions:

For a Cal-Look car, I don't like IRS, as it's heavier, adds more complexity and you have to also worry about improving the CV joints.

Depending on your use, 5 speeds are nice, but expensive, and require you to clearance above the nose cone. My own preference (for a street car) is to build a nice torquey engine where the power band is from idle to the moon. With enough displacement and compression, you can do it. For example, a well-designed two litre with a K8 and nice heads at 9:1-ish will pull a house off of its foundation and rev to the moon.

Again, more details will help...

My 1.5 cents.

JP

[fiatdude]

Well, Living in the great Down Under, you have special rules concerning your cars that we don't have. Your first concern should be what can be done to the car and still pass your inspections, I understand they can be quite strict.

That said --- IF your want a true Cal-Look you have to go swing, But I prefer IRS they  ride better and handle better IMO.

With a 5 speed trans you get a ton more gear selections that make a NA engine happier.

If your going to totally redo a pan, How about this --- Get you a G50 Porsche trans (5 speed and can handle 500 HP) and install it as you do the IRS conversion. Things would be sweet then. I believe Kennedy makes a flywheel and clutch combo that allows a type 1 engine to bolt directly up to the trans too -- Here is a thread from another site of a guy doing the install

http://ultimateaircooled.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php/topic,10220.0.html

[Mike Lawless]

The Hilborn injection got my attention. There's only a few guys including myself, and one of your countrymen, Dave Butler (dangerous) that use it in NA form. I really like it because I understand it. (I once had EFI, but didn't really want to learn the intricacies.) It'll be interesting to see your approach, especially if the car sees much street use.

On the IRS vs Swing....
These days, starting from scratch, I would have to advise taking a serious look at IRS, especially for racing. Quality swing axles are now very, very expensive. IRS components are readily available in all quality/price levels. One really has to seriously weigh their options both ways. It's just no longer an automatic nod to swing axles.

[I8AV8]

Thanks guys. The use I will get out of this car will be minimal if I am to be realistic. It is true that usage of such a car should determine how it is built.

Usage - With this in mind I envisage occasional weekend use, shows and the drag strip for fun. I would be very very happy if my car does 12s in the 1/4.
Restoration - body.
Floorpan - Comfort does not matter a great deal to me for a weekend streetcar. I'd like to be able to enjoy the moment in a cal look VW when time (and the wife!) allows. I gotta say that I have never been a fan of king and links. As this is in reality intended as a basically straight line car, maybe IRS is not such a big deal. An option is to install a post 68 BJ/Swing pan.
 
Mechanicals - At thsio point I have an Okrasa 78 crank with Okrasa balancer pulley. Worked CB 044's with valve train which have come off a friends car doing 12.9's. Gene Berg case, that I bought in 1997 ! 90.5 b barrells and pistons (off the same car mentioned above). I have a Hilborne mechanical injection system but people have been saying that they are temperamental on a street car. I am also considering TWM induction with a megaquirt or Haltech. I guess the challenge is to make all these work together. This is probably what Mike Lawless is referring to.

If I can keep it simple I will. I can wrench and want to put the car together myself. The basic gameplan is below but as most of you know can rapidly change. The key for me is a written plan and focus.

1. Find a suitable donor - any pre 68 Beetle. An oval would be awesome. The car would be stripped and bare metal resprayed.
2. While the car is away I would start looking at the mechanical side, machining etc.
3. Body/pan comes back and assembly begins.
4. Drivestrain including motor installation, testing etc.
5. First time out.
6. Ongoing improvements to mechanicals to get the motor and car the best 1/4 mile time it can achieve. I cant see achieving 12s for a newly built car but ya never know. This will be where my real learning curve will be.

[Mike Lawless]

Which ever way you go, you're gonna end up with an education on how each systems works. Whether it's mechanical injection, electronic injection or a pair of carburetors. My carb experience is limited to big Holley's on V8s. At one time, I was considered "TheMan" for carb modifications where I live. However, I couldn't even give a hint at where to begin on a pair of IDAs.
Since I've been around the block a few times with both EFI and MFI, I can say you'll probably be better off with EFI because of the resources and experienced people out there who can help. As far as MFI being "finicky" I'll say that it will do exactly what you set it up to do with limitations. It is totally dependent on fuel pump output and the pump is engine driven. It has no acceleration enrichment and as such it needs to have a very rich idle so it will have fuel in reserve so when the throttle is cracked, it will respond. Because of THAT, part throttle cruising will also be very rich, and the set-up will use a lot of fuel. And that is the drawback to it's streetability. If you can live with that, it's full throttle performance and visual appeal cannot be beat!
In your case it will just depend on your own preference. You'll spend about the same amount of money whichever way you go if you buy new stuff. Some will say that carbs are cheaper, but when the total package is figured in from tank to carbs and all the accessories, the cost is really close. Most important thing is to do your homework, make your choices, and have fun doing it!

[I8AV8]

Thanks for the info so far. I'm a bit slow in responding because I am doing so much research as I want to get it right first time. and reading lots of posts here !

Correction on the Okrasa pulley, its actually Gene Berg.

Already I think that going Hilborne injection could be out. I got thinking after Mike Lawless' feedback. My car will be a weekender but the drag strip would mean a fair drive. I'll come back to this later once I've found the right car and the body/pan etc. are getting along. Hpefully by then I would be decided on the drivetrain.

Another thing I want to do is have a light vehicle as possible without going overboard. This for me starts with choosing the right pan and body from ground up.

q. 1. Does anyone know the difference in weight between a balljoint and king and link beam?
2. Is an Oval lighter than a 64 beetle?

[Darth Weber]

If you want a true Cal Look car, in my opinion, it has to have Weber 48IDA's, 010 distributor and BRM wheels. Polished Centerlines are a close second for me also. Nerf bars: guys ran what they used to call buggy bumpers (a single bar on the front and rear) but T bars, to me, were The Look. The cops always used to hassle guys over their T bars and headlight height. Don't worry about tuning IDA's, plenty of help is available from Mark Harney's website and in the Tech Articles on AirCooled.Net.
http://www.carburetorclinic.com./tech_articles.htm
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm

[John P]

q. 1. Does anyone know the difference in weight between a balljoint and king and link beam?
2. Is an Oval lighter than a 64 beetle?

I don't know the specific weights, but generally speaking, they got heavier as they got newer, but I can't imagine that there is a significant difference between an oval and '64.

For example, my '67, as weighed at the track with DDS wheels, skinny tires, T bars, no passenger seat, no back seat bottom, and a 1/2-ish tank of fuel was approximately 1600-ish pounds. That's light. I would expect an Oval to be a bit lighter in the same trim.

You can also go with an aluminum beam, although it starts to understandably raise safety concerns for some.

[garyj]

Our Oval w/Ercos, single Kirkey, no back seat and t-bars > 1725 lbs w/driver. Never had the '64 weighed.

[so67vw]

Keep it simple.... That is tha attraction to the real cal-look.... Even though I love my EFI, IDAs are it.... I miss the sound and raw look...