How far off is the $15,000 Stroker Engine?

[gkeeton@zbzoom.net]

So while putting parts away at the shop from a recent shipment arrival, it is brought to my attention that Mahle cam bearings have almost DOUBLED in price. Standard bearings that were in the low teen range, now are $25, and the Double Thrust that were in the high teen range are now $30. For those yet to pay these prices for these items, their supplier simply hasn't gone through their older lower priced stock, and the increase will be comming. Mahle main bearing sets have also increased slightly to around $60. So with Mahle cylinder sets approaching $350 when they were available, and with the price being uncertian when/if we get another production run, how far off is the day when you'll be spending $15,000 to have a simple turn key Stroker engine? For the most part, I'm for the Chinese made parts cropping up into our hobby, but there are many that are not. Is the day comming when we'll be happy spending $10,000 for a Stroker with ALL Chinese parts because that will be the only option available?
 
A customer of the shop wanted 48 IDF carbs for his 2332 we're building. Empi has quit offering a Weber 48 IDF kit due to availability, and Bugpack has been backordered for quite some time, with no projected date of arrival. CB Performance lists the dual 48 IDF kits as being available, but they're almost $1100. Wasn't it just about 5 years ago, before Weber started their production in the U.S., that Dual 48 IDF kits were in the $600-$700 range?

This really aggrevates me because it seems the growth of the cost of the hobby is growing at a faster rate than the growth of my "financial situation". Splitty Busses are allready out of my price range, are the Beetles going to be next in the near future? Are we going to be running around in Subaru powered Superbeetles because the common hobbiest won't be able to afford to rebuild their 1600, or have enough money to invest in the hobby to own a Beetle with a flat winshield?

[madoski]

Interesting.  There are already a lot of people with the attitude "if you have to ask, you can't afford it, and don't waste my time with anything but the champagne", with high end VW parts.  Good quality parts are needed, yes, but not everyone needs the $2000 crank.  (remember Mark H....I'll never forget!)  If VWs go the way of Porsches and Willys coupes, a lot less of us will be playing with them and a lot more of our kids will be couchbound playing video games....and if nothing but rich snobs are driving VWs and having contests to see who can sink more $$$ into their rides, I really won't care whether I keep any of mine or not.

[Mike Lawless]

My friend Luke Vudopia and I were talking about this very thing in my garage a couple years back. The VW scene is in that transition stage much like the muscle car scene was back in the late 80's to early 90s. Some of you can remember being able to buy a fairly decent '69 Camaro for a couple thousand bucks.

As our numbers get fewer and plentiful parts supplies for long obsolete cars get harder to come by, the laws of scale will dictate ever increasing costs.

Having become fed up with the piss poor quality of the cheap parts long ago, I'm afraid I fit into my friend Steve's category of "Champagne or Nuthin." I'd rather pay the price for the good stuff because in the long run, the cheap stuff costs more.

[schell 59]

nothing for nothing
 i could have had a guy build me a big block 468 on pump gas, pushing an easy 600+ hp for 2k less than i had paid to get a vw motor done...

  transmissions are another joke..and full tilt 091 with Mse shifting system is double the price than a full tilt TH400 or a Dedenbear 'glide...both can hold well over 8-900hp..the 091,3-400hp tops...at 6k for a trans, no wonder nobody can understand the money we have in these things, when they are into american muscle street cars..but i guess this is what makes us different ...

or just plain insane.

and after coming back from Mecum auction in Fla...this past week end,i have no desire to conform to the cookie cutter world of camaro's,chevelle's and mustang's...even in the american industry the results are the same as ours...you can buy junk and replace it months later or you can buy the stuff that the build deserves and forget about it...

it's always about money...try getting a guy to blow 6k and up on a paint/resto job on a 2k bettle 

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

Well IMO, the V8 world will always cost more money to go as fast. I know many V8 racers that dump lots of money to stay alive.

Yes, we are in the middle of a price hike, but so is everyone else.

I personally know of several guys who have invested far more money to go as fast as me.  One in particular that I work with spend over $17,000 for 700hp V8  to run low 10's in his PIG heavy truck.

As for a 600hp V8 for less than a VW motor, that's hard to believe. But, I guess it's possible.

Even with the recent upgrade to Flanged crankshaft, new case and all. I still have under $10,000 in my 2332 turbo motor that will get me into the low 10s'.

Still thou. with all the VW's in the world, I don't think our market is going away any time soon. If someone stopped making parts (like 48IDF's or T-4 bearings) enventually, someone will step up to the plate because there is money to be made.
Heck, Autolina is making Okrasa heads again. Demand is there....

[Mike Lawless]

Still thou. with all the VW's in the world, I don't think our market is going away any time soon. If someone stopped making parts (like 48IDF's or T-4 bearings) enventually, someone will step up to the plate because there is money to be made.
Heck, Autolina is making Okrasa heads again. Demand is there....

That is true Tom, but like the OP points out, the days of $25 main bearing sets are gone, and small run production parts will always cost more.

[marty hiskey]

the feeling is so much better when you blow the doors off that guy with that $17,000 600+ horsepower engine in his $40,000++++++ camaro with a your under $10,000 vw.

[Dominick Luppino]

Well IMO, the V8 world will always cost more money to go as fast. I know many V8 racers that dump lots of money to stay alive.

Yes, we are in the middle of a price hike, but so is everyone else.

I personally know of several guys who have invested far more money to go as fast as me.  One in particular that I work with spend over $17,000 for 700hp V8  to run low 10's in his PIG heavy truck.

As for a 600hp V8 for less than a VW motor, that's hard to believe. But, I guess it's possible.

Even with the recent upgrade to Flanged crankshaft, new case and all. I still have under $10,000 in my 2332 turbo motor that will get me into the low 10s'.

Still thou. with all the VW's in the world, I don't think our market is going away any time soon. If someone stopped making parts (like 48IDF's or T-4 bearings) enventually, someone will step up to the plate because there is money to be made.
Heck, Autolina is making Okrasa heads again. Demand is there....

I'm not sure where you are getting your info from on building a fast V8, but I'm building one right now that cost way less then building a VW and it will last three times as long and run mid 9s

[schell 59]

^^exactly.

 i have soooo many friends running american in the northeast drag series...doing easy 9's with a bb,NOS and glide or a th400...in a lightened camaro,nova etc.

my '06 gmc with an LS1 was 4800lbs,we put a set of heads on it,a cam,headers,tunes and intake and it was doing 13.6 all day long...my N/A beetle took a completely built 2276,race trans and a had to be lightened to get 13.23...the budget was 4-5k more than what it took to get my pick up truck to do basically the same time!!!....and i used it to tow it there!!!!!

a BB chevy with 12.1c/r,set of nice heads and a decent tune with a glide and 4.56's in a 2900+ camaro is good for low 10's nigh 9's all day long...

my good friend has a 406 small block with a budget of $15k in his motor and $800 NOS kit, all the bells and whistles in the ca,with a complete car budget of $20k...for a grand total of 35k +/- ...in his '65 nova and he is running 8.74's at 169mph!!

i have 14k in my 2332 turbo motor,6k in my 091 trans and shifter,15k is misc bs,also factory in countless hrs of fabricating who klnows what that was wortth and whats my car good for high 9's low 10's?...you can buy a turn key crate motor from Summit in a 572 for 13k..makes and easy 5-600hp on a dyno we just did it 2 weeks ago...drop in in a rusty camaro,pull the interior out,6 point bar and a trans for 1k and your still half the price of my car and your deadly consistant,sure it's awesome that i can smoke the snot out of most american cars on the street...but bring it to the track and he's gonna make 40 more passes than my vw will for the shear fact of consistancy and reliability...not to mention some of theses guys are ripping my times with piles of crap cookie cutter muscle cars with big a$$ motors...


just sayim

[schell 59]

yes the point is speed takes money for sure!! .

dollar for dollar they get more bang for their buck and it is what it is..can you imagine SCCA racing a classic porsche?...poor bastids!!!

when i was told it was 1800 bucks for my crank shaft i almost fell over but if that's what it takes thats what it takes...later on my buddy tells me he just built his '07 Ls3 with all the right stuff for a little under 5k and a motor purchase of 4k...total 9k and it made 601 on the dyno and it's fuel injected and can be tuned at any time... I told him to go pound sand

my motor made a little over 350 and yes it's a 4 cyl and very respectable but she ain't gonna set a mileage award! but it still faster than most!!!

[Dominick Luppino]

It’s funny, I can buy a rotating assembly for my 406, Steel Crank, 8 “H” Beam Rods, 8 JE forged Pistons, Rings and all the Bearings cheaper then I can buy a Flange Crank for my VW not to mention a Roller Cam assembly for a quarter of the cost it is for a VW including machine work.

[Ovalnut]

I just had some VW parts powdercoated, nothing special and nothing that needed powdercoat.  Basically some RLR seat bases, trailer strap mounts, etc.  Found a shop in Newport, KY.  Turn around was 1 day.  Guy's name is Leonard and he's been around a long time.  Anyway, he sees, builds, powdercoats some sick V8 drag cars.  He assumed that's what I had.  I told him it was a 55 VW with a turbo motor.  Made his day. He started telling me all sorts of stories, connected me with a couple guys "tinkering with a VW" up the road.  Talk about insane and custom.  That's why I stick with VW's.  Everyone's had one, everyone knows of somebody with one.  I could do drugs, run around with strippers, etc, but I mess with VW's.  It ain't cheap and the payouts are small but it's just a lot of fun towing, racing, showing and seeing people point or hearing stories. 

[schell 59]

soo true oval nut...look guys I ain't hatin on 'em just the fact that it's crazy thats all...rolling my car into a american car show they all make there way to my ride and scratch their heads...i love it...no matter how fast she is!!

but i gotta say if i can get my car to sound like a big compression,big block the owrld would be a better place!! though she is growling like a stout small block

[Garrett]

I built my 2276 about 3 years ago.  I wanna say I spent about $5000 in parts. I did the assembly myself so if you're not comfortable doing that - that's a $$ factor too. 

Ran 13.30 @ 100.86 my first time at the track (in 3 gears with high-rpm ignition problems).  Still running nice and strong 5000 miles later - knock on wood!

Always a big hit at the local car shows!  It can be parked next to a $250k Ferarri and it still draws more attention.  pfbbbbbt!

-Garrett

[gkeeton@zbzoom.net]

Yeah, I can understand a lot of V8 stuff being less expensive, due to the simple fact that V8 parts are a hell of a lot more common at places like Summit Racing than VW parts are. Another thing to consider about the high end VW world is what we are asking parts to do. A friend dynoed my car with a fairly small engine to have an estimated 130+ HP at the flywheel. This being in a 1974 Supebeetle that came from the factory with 48 HP, thats 270% more HP. What would it cost to have a new 300 HP V6 Mustang making 270% more HP at 810? Then you can compair prices for the performance stuff.

The thing that's getting me is it just seems like within the last 8-10 years, every few years, the cost to own an Aircooled VW seems to double. I've owned my car since 1989, and collected a few more along the way, and I've worked at a VW repair shop since 2003. In 2003 Brazilian cast stock VW heads were around a $100 ea, cases were around $275, Bosch Alternators were $75, Bosch 009's $45, and Mahle 94's were $175. Now those things are; Heads - $225, Cases - $600+, the last Bosch Alternator I saw was around $250 with the Chinese repops around $125, the last Bosch 009 was around $175 with the repops around $65, and the last Mahle 94's were $300+. I consider CB Performance's longblock engine kits to be a good value, with the small 1776 kits around $3070, and the largest 2332 kit around $4165. With this trend of things increasing in 200%, or more increments, are CB's 1776 kits going to be $6100+ in 2015? Will the 48 IDF's be $2200 as well?

At the shop, I've allready seen the group of customers that build woodsbuggies decreasing IMO. Although this group may not have spent the most money per visit, their sheer numbers created quite a bit of volume. This group may have been the most "frugal" of the VW enthusiast crowd, and I have allready witnessed many start using the cheaper "yard rat" Subaru engines for their buggys, or simply getting rid of everything, selling out of the hobby all together. But then there has been this group that has somewhat filled in the void. They are the enthusiasts that drive their car to the shop, have us build them a performance stroker with a "pro-street" trans, and then install everything so they can drive it home. These customers are fewer in numbers than the buggy crowd, but make up the difference by spending quite a bit more per visit. Like madoski mentioned, are VW's going the way of the Porsches, and is it going to get to the point were the common enthusiast will no longer be able to afford a classic VW? In the last few years, I've allready seen the price hikes "weed out" people that would have owned Classic VW's 5-10 years ago. Being someone that works on Aircooleds in the Northeast U.S., with the thought of possibly continuing the work of the current business, or starting my own when the owner retires, it's really got me wondering about the direction of the future of the hobby. Tom once told me, in the future, he would like to be able to have a larger engine building business than he has today. His comment about the market not going away any time soon does give me a little more of a positive outlook though.

[madoski]

Having become fed up with the piss poor quality of the cheap parts long ago, I'm afraid I fit into my friend Steve's category of "Champagne or Nuthin." I'd rather pay the price for the good stuff because in the long run, the cheap stuff costs more.

Mike, I just find it hard to believe that you're really ahead of the game with an $1800 crank.  What does a good wedgemated Bugpack or CB crank cost, over $500 now?  Is that not enough?  Seems like it would be, but if anyone would know otherwise, it would be you hot shoes posting here. 

All this has me wondering how much it costs to build an outlaw 10.5 or PSCA drag radial car, looks like one of those would be a blast, but I still don't like the idea of the cookie cutter V8.

[schell 59]

 to build my motor and get 400hp out of it and turn around and get that same boost in power out of a chevy (in example) is not chep for them as well...

doubling the power of a beetle ain't to bad the same goes for a chevy but 3X or even 4x the stock power say turbo or NOS beelte ,in a chevy is expensive as well...a 8-900hp chevy is a good 15k+ i would think.

shoot look at mean gene and the other guys running 9's in theirs...putting american cars on the trailers must feel like a "first born"

[JVance]

Mike, I just find it hard to believe that you're really ahead of the game with an $1800 crank.  What does a good wedgemated Bugpack or CB crank cost, over $500 now?  Is that not enough?  Seems like it would be, but if anyone would know otherwise, it would be you hot shoes posting here. 

Not to put words in Mike's mouth:

http://home.comcast.net/~mlawless29/Kaboom.html

You have 3 choices: you can choose to learn from your own mistakes; you can choose to learn from others' mistakes; or, you can choose not to learn at all.

$1800 (or whatever Mike's current crankshaft actually cost) is still cheaper than the damage caused when his last crank let go.

...in the long run, the cheap stuff costs more.

This is the absolute truth.

[schell 59]

...i don't see anywhere mike said $1800 for a crank.. my self said that,it's  what "I" paid for mine 2-3yrs ago when i had my motor built....

just to clarify guys.

[JVance]

No problem; I was just responding to Madoski's post as he wrote it. But whatever the cost, $1800 is still cheaper than the parts that were lost when Mike's crank let go. The point is, many of us realize that investment in quality up front will pay off down the road.

[Squirmn German]

I don't care what it costs, I ain't racing no V8's! Blleeaack!

[Dominick Luppino]

I don't care what it costs, I ain't racing no V8's! Blleeaack!

Don't be a hatter be a liker

[Mike Lawless]

Mike, I just find it hard to believe that you're really ahead of the game with an $1800 crank.  What does a good wedgemated Bugpack or CB crank cost, over $500 now?  Is that not enough?  Seems like it would be, but if anyone would know otherwise, it would be you hot shoes posting here.  

OK Steve, I'll go along with a good spirited debate here.
 
I'm running a Scat flanged crank. By the time I had everything I needed to make it work, including the flywheel, and some case machining, it was indeed approaching $1800. The crank that let go in 2006 and took out everything between the heads was an $800 crank. It took a $600 set of rods, a $600 case and a bunch of other expensive stuff with it. Not to mention the labor factor in building a race motor.

To be fair, the manufacturer did make good on the crank and related hardware.

I have close to 500 runs on that Scat crank now. Just about all those runs hit over 8000 rpm at the launch, the shift and thru the traps. I had 80 runs on the crank that didn't make it.
 
Now, there are a lot of guys going faster with less and that's great. As for me, I will always do things the way I want and that seems to need a bit more power. I just have a thing for ultra clean street legal cars. They tend to weigh a bit more than a purpose built race machine. I like to race too. I like to race a lot and not sit on the sidelines with broken stuff and bitch about it.

Could I get by with a $500 crank? Maybe. But the way I run my stuff, I would treat the crank and the stuff connected to it as consumables and run the stuff for a set period and then swap it out.

So yeah, I think the $1800 crank was cheaper in the long run. So far that's $3.60 per run....so far. It's still going. The other crank....$10 per run just for the crank alone, not counting the other stuff. So I'm money ahead, if there is such a thing in racing.

I am in NO WAY saying that everyone needs the most expensive stuff out there. One needs to gage their budget, their desires, compromise where needed, then make their purchasing decision.

As my friend JVance points out, I still believe in the 3 step learning rule and will add this....

In the world of high performance motoring, regardless of discipline, you do your homework, you make your choices, you pay your money and take your chances.

Now if I had it to do all over again from the beginning, knowing what I know now...

I don't know. In the V8 world on my budget, I would be a small minnow in a giant pool filled with sharks. In the VW fish bowl, at the risk of sounding arrogant, not such a small minnow!

I really love the scene and the people. I like passing along what I have learned in the hopes that it will help someone. I REALLY love puttin' it to the V8s and winning rounds against 'em. I really like the respect and admiration we've earned amongst them as well. THAT did not come easy!

The bottom line is having fun at whatever level you choose to participate.

Oh yeah Steve. Those PSCA/ADRL style 10.5 or drag radial cars....

Well over $100K just for the car unless you build your own stuff. Then maybe only $70K

[Brandon Sinclair]

I think that a lot of the V8 muscle cars are still supported by the cars original manufacturer whereas VW said F U to the aircooled vw scene and just left it up to the aftermarket to fend for themselves.

[bugnut]

When it comes to the high-end stuff, I'll likely always be a spectator rather than participant... at least until the day comes that I can afford to go to the higher levels of VW performance, and I'm fine with that.  I'm currently building my first stroker, a 2017cc build, and have had a ball doing so.  It's nothing exotic by any means, and the car it's going into is damn ugly...lol.  A faded blue '70 with little paint left on it.

I think something to keep in mind is there's multiple levels of participation in this hobby to enjoy.  The high-end, push-it-to-the-limit performance end on the dragstrip or other forms of racing will always get steeper and steeper, simply because of the factors involved (breakage, decisions to go bigger/faster, etc).  For that end of the spectrum, it is far wiser to buy the best and cry once, I think, which has been explained numerous times.

My last engine was previously the biggest I'd ever had, and I had a ball with it.  A mild 1776 with stock valved, semi hemi heads, Kadrons and an Engle 100 cam.  There's fun to be had out there yet, I reckon, doesn't always have to be about the high-end stuff...

Amongst the 'Pro Turbo' level guys, I remain a Sportsman...

[bugnut]

I think that a lot of the V8 muscle cars are still supported by the cars original manufacturer whereas VW said F U to the aircooled vw scene and just left it up to the aftermarket to fend for themselves.

Absolutely... Volkswagen NEVER supported the drag racing/motorsport crowd when the cars were new.  So, IMO, they can take their new models that they are trying to market and compete against Mercedes and BMW, and shove them up their collective fannies.  Lol.

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

Quote from a V8 racer with high doller SuperComp dragster at one of last seasons "Bracket Eliminator" races at Quaker city raceway in Ohio....
"you guys are stealing the show with your VW's....."

Suddenly, it makes it all worth it...


I may be off base some on the cost of stuff. I'm sure the Left coast has something to do with it. Either way, I'd rather race a VW.

Anyone can let go of a button and steer thier 4,000lb pig down the straight track.
Doing it in a VW is a different story.

[schell 59]

well said Tom..well said.

also like Mike said...you live,you learn and to race a 10.5 well that's cool and all and to be competitve they spend retarded money to keep going their 7's and 8's only to be taken out by the next guy with pretty much the same car.

us on the other hand..let the money thing sit aside and do stupid silly fast times like Mike L and Gene C..and this is what makes me still love these things..regaurdless if i have a soft spot for Nova's...

i keep "yellowbullet" on "key" just to get a wiff then realise...they are more "commercial" than than know...after reading their posts sometimes i realize "yeah,maybe 14k for a stout vw turbo motor aint so bad"...especially when they see our s--t and scratch their heads and say "why?"

just my .02$

[Dominick Luppino]

Anyone can let go of a button and steer thier 4,000lb pig down the straight track.
Doing it in a VW is a different story.

Maybe after you have been doing it as long as I have in both types of vehicles you will understand my point, trust me I have been fast in both, the older I get the more I just want to race, not just dump thousands of dollars to do it...

[schell 59]

dom..your point makes sense as well...

when ever we go to the races..my nova and camaro boys make pass after pass and barely need to "drive" it (high 9's low 10's)...when asked if they wanna switch with mine..they say "ain't no way i'm gettin outta shape in that tin can"...

...

[Dominick Luppino]

I mean no disrespect to Tom, this is just my opinion. I still have two quick VWs and a 9sec Chevy Vega I love them both, it just cost way more money and time to go fast in my VW and the older I get, I hate working on cars.

[schell 59]

 ...so true!

[marty hiskey]

what really bothers me about this industry is the fact that chevy crap is dirt cheap as compared to say ford and mopar. my question is why? with todays manufacturing process being all computer controlled why do we still have this price difference. lets take for example crankshafts what makes a chevy crank cheaper than a ford. there is still the same amount of work going into making one. why is a big block chevy cylinder head cheaper than a small block ford even though its twice it's weight. to me the prices should be the other way around the product that sells more should cost more and the one that doesn't maybe sell as much should be less to try and lure the consumer. and another thing anyone can build a chevy and go fast its more impressive when someone build something different like our vw's and makes it goes fast. it to me shows more character in the person that thinks outside the box and is tired of going everywhere and looking in the engine bay of every car and seeing a chevy motor.

[gkeeton@zbzoom.net]

I think something to keep in mind is there's multiple levels of participation in this hobby to enjoy......
My last engine was previously the biggest I'd ever had, and I had a ball with it.  A mild 1776 with stock valved, semi hemi heads, Kadrons and an Engle 100 cam.  There's fun to be had out there yet, I reckon, doesn't always have to be about the high-end stuff...

Of those multiple levels of the hobby, the lower level is slowly disappearing. I too thrash the s**t out of my 1776, and have fun doing so. One thing to consider is that 1776, that is a very popular engine, now costs in the neighborhood of $3500+ to build as a new turn key engine. In the Northeast were I'm at, a Beetle that doesn't need floorpans, and heaterchannels, and runs/drives is anywhere between $2500-$4000. That's the "nice" one that still needs work to become a show piece. I'm sure schell 59 runs into this, but how do you tell someone younger than 30 that they will have $10,000 in restoring a Beetle that has a quality paint job, nice interior, and rebuilt performance engine/trans/brake system? A friends 18 yr old son has a 91 Honda Civic with a Turbo'd 93 Acura Integra Engine. Both cars that were used were "yard rats", and by the time everthing was bought/sold/traded, he has less than $3000 in the entire car that makes 300 hp to the wheels that runs in the 12's. VW's used to be the inexpensive car to restore, now they aren't that much different than the American cars. I too like to be different by owning an Aircooled VW, but noone young is getting involved with them in my area. It's much cheaper, and easier to get a Golf, or even a Civic.

what really bothers me about this industry is the fact that chevy crap is dirt cheap as compared to say ford and mopar. my question is why? with todays manufacturing process being all computer controlled why do we still have this price difference. lets take for example crankshafts what makes a chevy crank cheaper than a ford. there is still the same amount of work going into making one. why is a big block chevy cylinder head cheaper than a small block ford even though its twice it's weight. to me the prices should be the other way around the product that sells more should cost more and the one that doesn't maybe sell as much should be less to try and lure the consumer. and another thing anyone can build a chevy and go fast its more impressive when someone build something different like our vw's and makes it goes fast. it to me shows more character in the person that thinks outside the box and is tired of going everywhere and looking in the engine bay of every car and seeing a chevy motor.

Chevy's are extremely common. Summit probably sells more BB Chevy Heads, companies make greater quantities of them, therefor they can sell them cheaper. I too like the outside of the box thinking in having a unique vehicle. It's just the younger generation I come across build there cars with cheaper more common vehicles that are in the 10-15 year old range like Golf's/Civic's.

The classic VW hobby is slowly decreasing along with the decreasing numbers of vehicles. Bosch quit producing Alternators/Distributors simply because the volume numbers being sold didn't warrent them to continue production. I see companies in the VW aftermarket reducing their production runs, and with demand still fairly high, thats jacking pricies way up for the parts that are available. With the value of the Dollar going back down in Brasil, anything VW made there will continue to rise in cost, reguardless if the actual part cost stays the same. At least with the V8 stuff made in the U.S., sold in the U.S., they don't have to worry about currency conversion raising prices of stuff.

I don't want to get started in a personal pet peeve rant, but there are some really ignorant people scrapping Classic VW's in my area. Every other house in Southern CA. may have an Aircooled VW in the driveway, but every VW destroyed locally significantly raises the cost of used parts because of the allready limited supply. This is great for the horders of parts from the last 20 years that still have everything, they keep adding zeros to the end of their asking prices of parts. This creates yet another hurdle for the person wanting to buy/restore a Classic VW in the Northeast by having to buy used stuff of the net, and then pay shipping.

[Dominick Luppino]

It’s called supply and demand