Camber Compensator

[65bug]

Hey guys,
      I went by So Cal imports and checked out their Camber Compensator that they carry. It's made by...............LATEST RAGE.
      The metal bar looked to be some sort of cheapo pot metal. The grain looked very very strange, having a very blotchy appearance. Then it was gold plated or coated. Zinc?? Not sure, but I was not impressed.
      Also, no straps at all, just a plastic cradle on each end for each axle.
      Anyone selling the Cb Performance unit in So Cal.? I get the same thing from many stores: We cannot make any money off it, so we do not carry it.
      The Cb unit is 59.00 I think and the latest Rage was 89.00! And the Cb unit actually has straps on the ends.
      Anyone else know of any good units that are better then the Cb unit and reasonable??
      I am very very happy with the front 3/4 swaybar for lowered bugs. And many of their motor parts as well.
Thanks

[Glenn]

So Cal sells crap so why are you wasting you time looking at their website?

You know better than that.

[65bug]

Glenn,
 I actually discovered their store on the way home from work one day. It's only 10 miles from my house, so its pretty cool to stop on in and look at all their goodies.
   I thought they would have the Cb Performance CC as they sold me the Cb front sway bar. They dont carry it as they cannot make anything on it I was told.
    Berg just does not carry a big selection of parts!

[maui]

mine is a old empi and it look like a car leaf spring and a metal cradle connects to the four bolts of the trans side plates and has heavy duty straps on both sides and I found it on samba parts. It works really good.

[65bug]

Thanks Maui! Yes, I know the old Empi one's where supposed to be really good. I have saw pics. of them on Samba.com and they look really nice. Problem is they are expensive!
    Maui, what difference did you notice in handling? Does the car not roll as much?

[maui]

Back long time ago the CC was used for preventing tucking of wheels in corners, but for me I use it for squat wen I launch. I have small snubs and Koni shocks and CC in the rear and 90/10s up front. It's a cheaper way than HD spring plates. No bottom out on snubs and no rebound from shocks wen I launch and top end wen I let off, it stuyet run straight and safe. And it good for mid 12s and no burnout and 30lbs air in my DOTs so it work good for me. I paid $60.00 for it and I feel it is worth it

[pupjoint]

aircooled dot net sells sway a way units?

[65bug]

Thanks Maui! Seems I am going to be purchasing one myself. Correct me if I am wrong, but upon installation the wheels will then sit completely flat???
    From what I have seen this is the case. Did it do that on yours?
 Thanks pupjoint! Seems both the Sway A way unit and the CbPerformance unit are both great!

[cnfabo]

buy some flat bar spring steel, 100mm wide 10mm thick...use rod ends with  bolts that go through the ends of the bar.....then a metal strap that goes around the axles then thats how you connect it to the rod ends......then you will need a flat sheet metal bent into a vee with lips at the top so two bolts "each side" bolt through the inner seems of the frame horns...then a bolt in the middle of the v plate that bolts to the middle of the flat bar.....not explained very good but i tried.....ill try find some pics.....

when you jack the car up tighten the bolts at the ends of the bar so it pulls the axles down then when you sit it back on the ground the weight of the car is on the compensator and not all on the torsion bars.....dont ask me why it works but it does....a old bloke here in OZ started racing way before i was born.this is how he set up the rear....hes still circuit racing a swing axle beetle in his 70's......not long ago ha had a bad crash.......and walked away.......

[cnfabo]

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=83840#pid786079

i cant figure out how to post images off my email so give me your email and ill forward the images to you.....

[maui]

Yes it sit flat and tire wear is flat. My straps on the sides is small kine adjustable by maybe one inch each side so you get for make um soft or stiff ride but still flat.

[John P]

I'm running an original EMPI camber compensator on my '67.

Installed on the Car



I've also attached some pics of an NOS one.

[John P]

My Experience

I've also installed a set of NOS Koni shocks (see pic).

The combination makes a big difference in the car's handling, and it is quite stable - and more importantly, predictable - in the corners, despite the skinny radials. Definitely worth it. Period magazine test reiterate my experience.

The only thing to note is that, if your swing axle has the original Z bar, introduced in '67, you will have to remove the drop links to the Z bar as it interferes with the the compensator axle straps.

It's a simple device, and all I do is apply a little lithium grease once in a while to the inside of the axle straps (where they slide back and forth on the top of the axle tubes). If your axle tubes are full of crud (mud, undercoating, etc.) that should be sanded smooth so the straps can slide back and forth smoothly.

BTW, Porsche did the same with the 356 for handling reasons.

My 1.5 cents.

JP

[65bug]

Thank you John!
     My bug is a 65 so no z-bar. Great pics!!!! Where the Koni's worth the money???
     Also, I guess all CC's are adjustable for different rides as well.
     The more I look, the more I want the Cb Performance unit. Looks nice, it's brand new and I should not have any problems with it!
     John, did it make your rear tires sit flat as well like on maui's car? Any pics from the rear of the stance?
  Thank you again.

[maui]

mine look like John P with one bolt in the middle.

[John P]

Thank you John!
     Where the Koni's worth the money???
     John, did it make your rear tires sit flat as well like on maui's car? Any pics from the rear of the stance?
  

The Koni's were definitely worth it. I've never liked gas shocks on a Type I (although I do like them on the heavier Type II), and the Koni's are oil. They don't degrade the ride at all in my experience, but give it more control. Perhaps the difference isn't in the compression, but in the rebound? In any event, I like them. In fact, my '67 is more fun to corner than my '71 911 (which also has the factory Koni sport suspension, sway bars, LSD, wider tires, etc.), primarily because the '67 is lighter and more tossable. Although in a high speed, sweeping corner, the 911 has the edge.

Where I really notice the benefit is in tight radius corners, as the rear stays flatter and is MUCH more predictable.

The EMPI camber compensator on my car does not impact ride height, although in theory, it will impact compression and extension due to the helper effect of the spring. To reinforce my observation, there has been no difference in tire wear across the tread face, as it is still even and flat.

People nag on the swing axles, but if I was autocrossing again I would definitely use a swing axle over an IRS. Autocrossing is a constant battle of understeer, and the swing axles are lighter and much easier to steer with the rear. I had a really nicely set-up Super Beetle 20 years ago that I did some light autocrossing with, but my '67 is much more fun in the corners.

Don't get me wrong - an unmodified swing axle can be a scary beast, but with a few modest changes it can become a fun little sporting car.

My 1.5 cents.

JP

[65bug]

Maui and John,
      I just ordered the CbPerformance one a few minute ago! I could not pass it up for the price, and they claim it's alot stronger then the Empi one. 50% I hope that does not mean it's going to ride 50% crappier too!
   Not that it matters to me, but I have been pretty happy with all their products!
      Now I need some Koni shocks! I have Bilsteins in the rear and thought they really smoothed out the ride. Maybe Koni's just to replace my G2'a on the front.
         
Your Product Selection:
Main>Rear Brakes & Suspension>

CB Camber Compensator

50°% Stronger Than The Original EMPI Camber Compensator!

Reduce body roll in your VW Sedan with a CB Camber Compensator. It bolts right on in less than 30 minutes to help eliminate wheel lifting during cornering, improve the ride, control cross wind-buffeting, and improve steering. The CB Camber Compensator is a vital part of your complete performance package, and fits all Swing Axle VW Sedans, Square Backs and Ghias. Each Camber Compensator is shipped complete and ready to install. Just bolt it on, no special tools required.

[65bug]

Heres the pic of the Cb unit.

[John P]

Cool - it looks very similar to the EMPI unit. I noticed no degradation in ride quality with the EMPI unit, but have no experience with the CB unit.

I've never liked GR2s on the front end of a street driven Beetle, and suspect that you'll like the difference with Konis. Ride quality is definitely subjective, just like driveability with a street engine. 

[jgerock]

I've never liked GR2s on the front end of a street driven Beetle, and suspect that you'll like the difference with Konis. Ride quality is definitely subjective, just like driveability with a street engine. 

Yup - too firm with the KYB GR2 shocks.  I have them all around.  Not too bad if the adjustable front end is all the way up (I also have dropped spindles).

[65bug]

Thanks John! My front end was pretty shot! So I really liked them once I totally rebuilt my front end with dropped spindles, narrowed beam, disc brakes and all new parts.
    I have my beam adjusted all the way up. It surprised me how nice it rode with the front end that low!
     I most certainly would like Koni's, but I need to ride in someones car with them first! I know they are not cheap at all!
      jgerock,
            You pic looks very close to my front end! I love my new cb sway bar! HUGE difference!
 

[maui]

Koni shocks you can push um in a little easy but for pull that thing out is another thing all together so the squat is good but rebound is slow so handling is the best.

[65bug]

maui,
 Gotcha! Thanks! Here's a couple pics of the car. Motor, trans, front end all done! REady for body work and paint!

[65bug]

Took her out for a spin and she handles great. Even though I am still learning on the handling with this swing axle. It does pretty dam well just with the big sway bar up front!
    I hope the CC makes a big difference as well!

[65bug]

Hey guys,
 Camber Compensator is on schedual to be here tomorrow via UPS!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  If anyone wants some pics and a review I would be more then happy to do it!
    I have had alot of really good luck with Cb parts! This should be no exception!
 Thanks!

[65bug]

I GOT IT TODAY! Very very nice compared to the "latest Rage" crap! This thing is VERY beefy and looks to be made out of good steel!
    No directions however at all! From what you guys have posted and I have seen seems to be a easy mount!
    Check out these pics! Let me know what you guys think. Thick steel too!

[65bug]

A few more! This thing is solid! I have a good idea on how it works, but nothing compares to installing it and getting a first hand lesson!
      I may put it on tonight! I hope it fits well like Cb's other stuff I have used!

[Donny B.]

I have a friend that has that very same camber compensator on his car and it works very well.  Enjoy!

[65bug]

Thanks Donny! Yep, pretty darn excited! Cannot wait to get it mounted on the car.

[arnolds64]

 I have I think an Empi that I probably bought it from So-Cal years ago and have ran it for probably 12 years. I just put in a new cam and did not put it on till I  was feeling safe with the engine. So I can give a comparison. Makes a huge difference. Keeps the rear nice and flat where without it lifts with the tuck in. I run the KYB Gas Adjust shocks on back that are stiff and the stock style oil shocks on the front with a 5/8 thick sway bar on the front. If you read the How to Hot Rod VWs book this is what they say to do to make them handle. It went from understeering really badly running with the Gas Adjusts on the front to getting nice weight transfer turn in and much more neutral handling and better braking with the stock style shocks.

[65bug]

Thanks Arnold! I am pretty excited then to get it installed! Seems from what people say it's a night/day difference! I will report my findings once I get it installed!
   

[KAFUR1]

Was wondering if you had a rear sway bar on the car ?

[65bug]

I did not know they made rear sway bars for swing axle cars KAFUR1. If they do please show me where. I could never find one.
Thanks

[KAFUR1]

 link below

[KAFUR1]

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-4035