cam

[Kevin Alexander]

I know everyone gets tired of what cam should I use posts and I have probably asked a similar question like this before but I need suggestions.
The 2332 is about to come out for a winter time check up. Plan to have it back together by march for our dyno day here in GA.
This year I had intentions of having a 12 second pumpgas on 205/70 radials car and I accomplished that with a best time of 12.72 in the quarter using all 4 gears and 1.7 60 ft.
Now my goal is a 12 second pumpgas radial tire car that I can drive almost anywhere and be reliable. I drive the car on nice days but in the middle of July heat you have about a 30 minute window at highway speed before oil temps get to 220+.
Current combo is 2332 with 10.3 compression, 86C cam with 1.4s, out of box 44x37 wedgeports and matched manifolds, 44 idfs w/38 vents, 1 5/8 header w fatboy muffler, stock doghouse cooling system. Dynoed 151 Whp.
4.12 R/P, super beetle mainshaft, 1.37 3rd, .89 4th
 Now, what I want to do is go to say a FK8 or 86B cam and drop the compression to around 9.5:1 or so. Only thing is I will have to run around .070 or .080 deck height to get there. This should make for a more reliable valve train and better streetability than the 86c and the drop in compression would mean less heat. ? am I over thinking this? Please let me know if I am.
Also figured I would port my manifolds all the way up instead of the gasket match that they are from CB. I have read somewhere with Mark H. talking about how that was worth 10-15hp. In my mind I would think this would make up for the loss in power from the smaller cam and less compression.
 Also a 96 pass mesa with fan is waiting to be installed.

 What do you suggest? Less compression and more conservative cam? Keep the 86C and maybe drop compression to 9.8 or 10:1 instead of 10.3??
I know it has to be possible do have a drive anywhere 12 sec car and I'm not stopping until I do it.
Suggestions please. What cams have you guys found to work best with the wedgeport head?

[1slick67]

I would just drop the compression and keep the same cam.We have a couple of big motor hotrods with FK-10 cams and 8:1 comp. that run very hard and still have great bottom end power.It's all about the tune up.I would also put some IDA's on on it.

[Kevin Alexander]

I was thinking that option as well. If I went with an fk8 and lowered the compression my dynamic compression would still be about the same as the 86c and higher compression.
I am just concerned about valvetrain life and reliability on long hauls. How well does the valvetrain hold up with the 86C? Has to be better than the vz and fk 40 series cams

[1slick67]

The 86c is slightly bigger than the k-10,but still has gentle ramps.Valve train life depends on quality parts and proper spring pressure.With 1:4 rockers I would expect to get fairly good life out of valve train due to proper valve opening and closing speed.Not enough spring pressure is a killer and to much can wipe the cam.Try to find some info on this subject and read up.

[JVance]

... and the drop in compression would mean less heat. ? am I over thinking this?

Kevin, oil temp and cylinder head temp are not the same thing. Making a cam and CR change based on oil temps is not necessarily going to fix the problem. Get a cylinder temp gauge and determine first if your CHTs are too hot. Do you have a wideband O2 gauge? What are your AFR's under cruise? Timing?

What engine case, oil pump, oil viscosity, and oil cooler are you running? Where is your oil temp sender located, and have you verified the gauge is reading accurate?

If you're dead set on changing the cam for improving low-end torque and valvetrain longevity, then do it. But there's a lot of other factors that influence engine and oil temps that will not be affected at all by a cam and CR change.

[David Ward]

I'd drop the compression a bit and toss on some IDA's with 40mm vents.

[maui]

Do what David said and pay close attention to what JVance is trying to tell you and jetted and tuned right it will make the diff. so you can stick to what you have.

[Ian Godfrey]

I'm thinking of going the other way.... I have an 86B 9.4 comp 2387 motor. 140 RWHP.
I have SE heads with a coating package (thermal barrier and thermal dispersant) and oil (180) and head temps (280) are good even in the middle summer (105F) at sustained high speed. I've got all german tin, sleds and a venturi on the shroud and a small setrab cooler. Since it stays cool enough, I'm planing an 86C and more comp. I reckon you you should be able to get 044 style heads to cool with all those fins, with good tuning and cooling.

[1slick67]

Do what David said

Pretty much the same thing I said!I have been around and around with this subject and my own personal experiences for the last 20 years.I feel higher compression for mostly driven street cars is over rated.With a good set of heads and a good tune up, lower comp. will give balls of power and help the motor live if you like getting the most out of you're dollar.

[arnolds64]

Really the only way to do this is to drop the compression and go with a more conservative turbo cam and turbo it. The Low Bugget under the hood would do it. Normal driving off boost it will be reliable with less compression. You would have to make sure to run an oil cooler, Louver the deck lid and maybe do a the Cal look ( here in the tech articles) cooling aid since the turbo will add under hood heat. I would also do the header wrap on all the piping too.

[Kevin Alexander]

Jvance. I see where you are coming from. I just wanted to make the engine a little more conservative because at 800ft elevation and 10.3:1 on 93 octane is kind of pushing it to me. I just want a little extra margin of safety. I have not checked CHT as of yet but I am checking oil temps at the filter with an infared gun and I get 220 with just a 25 minute drive home at 65mph. Oil pressure is around 45psi at idle cold, 8-10 psi hot idle and 60 psi cruising down the road cold and 35-40 when hot. 26mm pump and 10w40 Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil. Keep in mind this is in the summer. As of now while its in the 40s and 50s during the day here in GA my temps are about 175 when I get to work after a 25 minute drive at 65mph.
Carbs are 44idfs with 38 vents, 160 mains, 200 airs, 57 idles. Timing set at 32 deg with a 009 and MSD 6AL

[JVance]

Personally, I don't see a problem.
The aluminum cases have been reported to increase oil temp above the magnesium cases, and the temps you are measuring are before the oil cooler. I run oil temps that hot on the highway in the summer (since adding the turbo), and CHTs can vary by over 100 degrees without affecting the oil temp.

That said, I don't blame you for wanting lower oil temps. But oil temps are not CHTs, and if your CHTs are not elevated, then you will have to go about lowering your oil temps through some means other than lowering CR and changing the cam.

Get a decent CHT gauge. Get a wideband O2 gauge. Find out what is running hot and do some tuning; your engine will tell you how much timing it wants. In the end, it might mean changing the CR and the cam to get the results you desire, but at this stage of the game, you don't know what factors are elevating your oil temps.

[Sam]

I was in the same boat as you, 2332, CB wedgeports, 12.6:1, XR 302, 48 dells.  I could run 20-30 minutes in the dunes before getting hot oil temps 100-110celcius in the sump, I switched to royal purple 10w30 from valvoline racing 20w50 and the thing doesn't get hot anymore unless I run it really hard.

[arnolds64]

Sounds like your need to keep it cool as your major stumbling block. I was in the same situation with my 2017 with 8.5.1 and a modest 110 cam and ran hot like yours. Ran .045 deck to get cooler and nothing worked. About 60mph hour I could keep the Berg light from coming on but any faster it would do the same that you are experiencing. Get an oil cooler with the fan and thermostat and your problem will be solved. Another good thing that worked for me was to do the Ram-Air thing that is in the Older Tech articles here. I tried this before the Cooler and it helped but not all the way. I did not have a head temp gauge but could tell a difference in the way it ran even after the oil light would flicker as it would seem to bog down before. Not Good. But the combo I think worked better. Instead running it through the rear tin I cut a hole in the body on the right side just to the right of number one spark plug and ran the fresh air tubing through it.

[Kevin Alexander]

I have a 96 pass messa with fan and thermostat I plan on hooking up. I already have decklid stood off top and bottom so I should be getting plenty of airflow. You think it would be worth it to cut a hole in the passenger side of the front engine tin to let air in there as well?

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

I agree with Arnold here. Running lower compressoin won't be enough to make much difference. IMO....

In most cases, lower compression only means. Soggy motor, rather than cooler motor.
That's  just my experience thou.
We went thru this same thing with my buddy Jacob's motor several years back. 2110cc street/strip motor. All components were re-used each time. Only real changes were the cam and c/r.
86B, 86C, FK-45. compression didn't seem to matter too much.
The coolest running configuration was FK-45 with 10.2/1.
Hard to belive, but I can say for a fact that it ran the coolest and made 175hp to the rear wheels.
(Thanks K-Roc)...