Berg linkage Vs. Cb Performance linkage

[65bug]

Hey guys,
     Alright, so I have tried the cb performance hex bar linkage with my 48 dellortos. Just curious as to if the 200.00 for Berg linkage is worth it.
     The Berg linkage looks nice, and even has what looks to be adequate springs on the linkage itself.
     Look to hear from you guys that own it!

Thank you

[1950split]

I like it very much. Very smooth feeling at the pedal and easy to tune! I just ordered another one for my new engine..

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

The only thing I don't like about a Berg is the lack of left/right handed threads on the pushrods.
Why not have them?
Both ends have right hand thread so the smallest adjustment is one full turn.
That's too much IMO to get the carbs synced up real nice.
When using a CB linkage, I can make super small adjustments to get the carbs running smooth as a baby's bottom.
I have seen many folks will make thier own pushrods for the Berg linkage using some old stock pushrods and left/right hand thread tie-rod ends.
That's a sweet setup then.

The CB linkage works fine on all my motors. Yeah, they can have some slop in then ends, but it doesn't ever seem to screw up the function and ability to stay in-sync.

Whatever floats your boat. 
 

[Glenn]

Tom,

Berg now sells updated arm ends that fix that problem. The engine have a swivel and allow infinite adjustment.

These engine are found by a member of this site and posted here. Berg now offers them.

Two thumbs up for CLF members.

[J Dotson]

I had a GBE linkage once on a car i bought,I did not much care for it.Too clunky and "big"...All i had used since mid 80's was CB hex bar linkage and i guess i've put it on like 100's of motors i've done.Its a great set-up if ya ask me.CB is cool!

[Dougy Dee]

The only thing I don't like about a Berg is the lack of left/right handed threads on the pushrods.
Why not have them?
Both ends have right hand thread so the smallest adjustment is one full turn.
That's too much IMO to get the carbs synced up real nice.
When using a CB linkage, I can make super small adjustments to get the carbs running smooth as a baby's bottom.

You can bend the arms on the ends of the cross shaft, either left or right, (not up or down), to adjust the length of the drop arms at the carb. It doesn't need much.  I think the Berg instructions cover this.

[65bug]

Thanks you guys! I have never really had a problem with anything from Berg. Great guys and their parts never give me problems!
    The Cb linkage seemed to be weak to me in terms of the hex bar or "throttle return".
    Seems the Dellorto springs could have used a little help with returning that heavy hex bar.
    I was thinking about trying the Berg unit this time around, as my cb linkage hexbar has a 90 in it now.
    I know I can get a new hex bar for 11.00. I just really want to take my time, make the motor a little more clean and easier to work on.
    Is there not another linkage out there where the pivot is down on top of the motor??? I cannot remember the name of it..........

[Jason Foster]

  CSP makes a nice center pull.

[bugnut]

I've heard good things about the Scat unit, too.

[65bug]

Thank you Jason! That CSP unit looks nice and simple too! I love how the throttle cable attatches level with the bellcrank hole! That unit looks like it works nice and smooth too!

[64Red]

CSP is the way to go... easy to install and adjustments are simple! added bonus....sleek looking... no clutter

[David Ward]

Tom,

Berg now sells updated arm ends that fix that problem. The engine have a swivel and allow infinite adjustment.

These engine are found by a member of this site and posted here. Berg now offers them.

IMO, the swivel section of the new arms have too much slop and they rattle around.  All of the slop adds up to slop in the adjustments and depending upon the varying slop per end, you could have your carbs opening at different rates.  I bought a bunch of these to retro fit three Berg linkages and was very disappointed.  I went back to the originals.  

[65bug]

Hi guys,
     Well, I have decided to try the CSP linkage. Looks very basic to adjust, less moving parts and much less clutter.
     Made in Germany too. Should be quality made hopefully! I know even Germany now uses a lot of Chinese made parts.
      I am hoping their linkage is all German parts. I think I am going to order from cip1 tonight or tomorrow. Anyone have any good pics of their motors with this linkage?
     It looks like it mounts right onto one of the block bolts?
     

[Donny B.]

I have been using Berg Linkage for many years without problems and those that have issues with it must not have read the detailed instructions.  It works for me and if it doesn't work for others... Oh well!   I still think it is the best out there.  Most of the DKP cars are using it.  Would those folks use it if it was crap?  I think not.  CSP is fine.  I just don't care for it.  I know it works, but I prefer Berg!  Now to get down off my soap box...

[65bug]

Donny,
      I am going to take a close look at the Berg linkage again then! I just want better then what I had. The Cb linkage did not impress me at all...............

[Donny B.]

If you decide on the Berg linage make sure you order one with the Heim pivots for the cross shaft.  With the heim joints it is so smooth and should last a life time.  That is what I have.

[bugnut]

If you do decide to go CSP, 65Bug, I gotta drop a recommendation for ordering it through Vee Dub Parts Unlimited... They ship super fast I've come to find with several orders in recent weeks... just my recommendation.

[mmccarthy]

 I am installing Berg linkage on an engine I built for a friend, seems very smooth and precise. Prior to this I have used CB linkage and was well satisfied with it, only thing I saw that needed improvevment was the pivot balls were too soft and wear out quickly and hexbar becomes loose.  Replacement parts are reasonable and CB parts people  do a great job of getting the parts out quickly so it has never been a problem.     Mike

[jgerock]

Before.  This 40mm CB kit was purchased in 1994 from RTR Racing.  It came with everything in one box including the Dellorto tuning book.  One thing I didn't like about it is the tiny springs inside the hex bar.  Mine was somewhat difficult to adjust properly (side-to-side).  The cross bar did activate both carbs exactly at the same time though.  It is a well engineered product (I still have it)


Now with Berg linkage actuating the Dellorto carbs.  It is much easier on my foot and doesn't flex because it is mounted to the fan housing.  My linkage has the rubber ends as Glenn pointed out. Since the Berg linkage doesn't need the support posts on air cleaner bases,  I replaced the original air filter assemblies with new ones from CB.  They are actually made for a single carb mount (I didn't know that!) so I had to cut and grind off the bosses for the neat accelerator cable.  Only 1 person has noticed what I did so far!  You can see the remains of the boss on the right side filter base in the last picture.

[mmccarthy]

 Finished the Berg installation today , kit is very well made and no problems to speak of, was able to balance the carbs easily. A very good product.             Mike

[GaryW]

I  like the center pull "bell crank" style, been using them for years, and the next engine I build I going to try the CSP setup, to see if its really made in germany. I had the berg setup once and never had a problem with it, but the center pull makes it easier to move around the engine compartment, less clutter. I use to go to the Texas Motorplex VW events, 2 times a year, every year, for all the VW events with a car and back in the late 80's I was watching Gary and Gene Berg as they were adjusting the carbs on the black 67 sedan and they were using a simple center pull linkage and they just bent the arms as needed for adjustment. No wrench, nothing was loosened, just slightly bent the arms as needed. I remember thinking, they could use any linkage setup they wanted and they are using a center pull setup. I also thought next time I need to sync mine I'm still going to loosen the jam nuts and adjust rather than bend.

[speed7]

I used a center pivot style linkage from BAS (Ahnenthorp - Germany) on an earlier engine and found the pedal hard and not very progressive. As soon as I changed to the Berg linkage , the pedal feeling was much better making the car very "streetable". Adjusting does not make any problems.
Marc

[65bug]

Hey guys,
    Thank you EVERYONE for all the feedback and comments! I have a feeling if I go "Berg" linkage it's going to cost me over 200 clams!
     Seems they have it all in stock right now too. If I get it, it will be next week.
     I cannot see purchasing a used set-up for something as delicate as carb linkage......

[jgerock]

Gene Berg's items are NOT cheap - but they are built properly and you shouldn't have any problems with their parts.  Everything comes with detailed instructions - no guessing.

Most of my engine was built with GBE parts with the exception of the case and carbs (both from CB Performance).  I learned a hard lesson when I was younger that you simply cannot skimp on parts.   Anyone remember Cofap remanufactured heads?  I went thru several sets - the exhaust valve seat would move all around after 3-4 months of daily driving.   Went thru some Bugpack items like pulleys, single carb kits, aluminum valve covers, etc.  All parts were later replaced by stock VW (German) parts for reliability.  I once had a Monza 4-tip exhaust that only lasted two weeks before the flanges warped - poor choice on my part.

And yes -years ago I once tossed the thermostat and flaps thinking the car would run better.  Bad idea removing the proper German Engineered parts.  My current engine has all the stock doghouse parts, cooling tin (with cylinder deflectors) and thermostat.  It doesn't overheat even in hot, humid weather here in VA.

Best reading material around is the set of "blue" books containing the Berg instructions and technical articles. 

I hope you can save up for the Berg linkage.  I highly recommend them.

[wayne harron]

I just bought a set of IDA's and they came with linkage from redline. Right now I am running a CB kit but the redline looks really nice think I am going to give it a shot.

[64Red]

Good luck with choosing the right linkage. Do your research and see what fits your liking best.

I've had the CB then made the switch to CSP. Later I purchased a Berg. I had it and used it and did not really care for it. I bought the updated pivots and I still preferred the CSP so I went back to it. It all depends on your preference and what you feel is best for you.

I use many Berg products on my engines and do not disagree that they do make quality parts however, there are many other manufactures that make quality parts (CSP being one of them).