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youngnstudly
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« on: April 07, 2010, 01:11:22 am » |
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miles on my new 2276-And then she died.... Valve train got quite a bit noisier than usual so I figured I would check the lash on the 1-2 side since I just adjusted the 3-4 side and (re-adjusted) the rocker shaft side clearance on that side 2 weeks ago. I adjusted the 1-2 side (valves) yesterday after work, but the car was still noisy (excessively!) this morning. I decided to change the oil today first thing after work since I changed it last at 200 miles (Brad Penn break in oil to 10/30 wt regular Brad Penn) and the car has another 500 miles on it. The plan was to drain the oil and let the valve train cool enough for me to re-shim the rocker shafts...I left them at around .012" clearance since they were too tight with a .015" shim, so I knew that could be a little of the valve noise. The second I pulled the magnetic drain plug, about 6 chunks of metal (2 which looked ALMOST identical to valve keepers) drained into my pan FROM THE DRAIN HOLE. The sump plate (still) hasn't even been removed yet!  I first thought (HOLY SH!TE!!!!!) and let the oil drain completely....Then for some reason (fate) I threaded the drain plug back in and took it back out...and that's when I knew! Half of the cup on (one) lifter came out with the magnetic plug...It basically looks like I cut the cup section off of a lifter, then sliced that section in half. I still don't know how the hell it ended up not going through the pick up tube, but I am certain it would have plugged that sucker up for sure! It is quite a bit bigger than a valve keeper though! Status currently"F#%KED! The plus side is that my neighbor totally offered to help me swap his 1600 in...at that very moment (after a long hard day at work)! After we installed the 2276 in December/January, he got "inspired" and pulled his 2 liter parts out and even put his "backup" 1600 on the run stand to fire it up. Thank god for friends! As of now, the backup engine is in and I just need to do some minor hookups on Thursday (rewire for a generator, install the breast plate, change the oil etc.). As for my failure, I don't have a clue! Almost every component of this engine was built using CB parts and the CB 2pc. lifter deal did cross my mind, but I don't know for certain what the engine builder used for lifters, I don't know what kind of failure it is based from, and there really aren't any fingers to point here. It just needs to be fixed and I gotta deal with it! I'm just pissed I only took it out 5 or 6 times and "jumped on it." It still never saw 6,000 RPM though. I am thinking the the push rod got cocked in the lifter and "took it out" but it really seems far fetched. I don't know. I do know that it has to come apart though and it's impossible to see what happened with the engine assembled! Sorry to "fume" but I don't know what else to say! Extremely disappointed! Just another learning experience I guess. "Back to regular scheduled programming."  Andy |
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-Andy
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Donny B.
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 10:13:03 am » |
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Keep us posted when you disassemble the engine. Right now you can only guess as to what happened. Take it apart slowly and examine everything carefully and you should find the root cause. I have had issues in the past. Sometimes due to my own stupidity and other times to actual part failures. Take your time and we can all help you work through it. Good luck!
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Donny B.
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ALB
Junior
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Posts: 113
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 12:37:05 pm » |
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Tough luck, Andy! I know how it feels to have a motor go for a crap after 700 miles. Hope you get it back together soon. Al
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Immaturity is forever!
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 12:32:02 am » |
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Thanks guys! Seems like after all the headaches I had on this engine and transaxle install, I am ready to drive the car off a cliff! The 2276 is going to get torn down tomorrow after work and I am going to box everything up and label it Friday for storage. It will go (hopefully soon!) into my ghia after my dad and I finish restoring it, since the engine compartment is much larger. I am planning to "freshen up" the original 1600 (single port) from my ghia using some mildly ported heads, new pistons and cylinders, Kadrons with single port manifolds, a new SVDA distributor from lowbugget, and all the other parts I have lying around waiting to be used. Once I have that installed, I will build a cheap(er) 1776 or 1915 using dual carbs, mild cam and more conservative parts. I am so sick of working on that 2 liter with the limited space in the engine compartment. The worst part about it was the damn CB Big Beef manifolds being so tall and "cramming up" the engine compartment! I might as well install a turbo if I want a PITA car to tune! Regular height manifolds (with my 40mm Dells) weren't nearly as tough to work around! My car is such a (underpowered) pleasure to drive now with my neighbors back up engine installed...The long throwout arm and electric fuel pump are very nice with the stock 1600. Though I do hate the (rusty German) muffler with pea shooters, it does fit nicely with my apron and is extremely quiet! Too bad it doesn't break the tires loose in 3rd gear at 50 MPH  . I'll keep you guys posted on what I find. Andy |
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-Andy
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Ohio Tom (DdK)
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 02:18:09 pm » |
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I had that happen once. They were German lifters. It just happens sometimes.
I run CB lifters all the time and never had one fail.
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Ohio Tom Simpson. Home of the Killa' Bee.
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Brandon Sinclair
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 02:23:51 pm » |
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Sorry to hear that. Take it apart and clean out everything and go over everything and replace the lifters maybe the bearings and seal it back up.
Take your time and if you are frustrated set it aside and come back at a later time.
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2010, 12:20:00 am » |
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I don't how or why, but at least I know what and where....#4 lifter on the exhaust side. Everything else looks okay, I definitely had some more tuning to do (a few cylinders look too rich) and I think at least one cylinder wasn't totally sealing, but so far the damage isn't too bad. From the outside, I think the lifter bore is in fair shape and could get by being re-sleeved. The only other odd thing I noticed is one of the #3 (I think the intake side) push rods has a groove in it that doesn't look (to me) like it was chaffing against the push rod tube. It looks more like it was cut using a tubing cutter but the cutter only wore a slight groove in the tube. There is no wear pattern (otherwise) in the push rod like you would normally see (say for example a half inch long shiney spot close to the end of the push rod tip). They all rolled straight. Cross hatch looks good too. The gland nut was a total PITA to remove though, so I guess chico wasn't kidding when he said he torques all his gland nuts to (a minimum of) 400+ lbs.! Tomorrow I will be able to see what is going on inside the case. Number 3&4 head and piston tops:   #3 push rod:  The culprit:  Number 1&2 head and piston tops:   To be continued... -Andy |
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-Andy
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Bad bug
Junior
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Posts: 133
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2010, 02:19:07 pm » |
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Andy is the gland nut a 46mm or a 36mm gland nut.
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2010, 03:30:34 pm » |
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It's a 36mm gland nut
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-Andy
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Brandon Sinclair
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 11:00:51 am » |
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Andy, did you tear down the short block and go over the rest of the internals?
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 07:41:52 pm » |
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Actually you won't believe it (well....I didn't anyways!)! I torn it down to the short block, removed the flywheel and pulley, pulled all the sump bolts out (except one that was installed from the inside and holds the pickup tube as well), and all of the case nuts (except one). At that point I noticed a problem that took place during assembly and shouldn't have happened, but for some reason it did...I won't mention what it was, but I will say that I decided (for the heck of it) to send the engine builder an email and pics of my issue (broken lifter) and of the "error" that was made during assembly of the short block. The next day I got an email that simply said: "Hello Andy, Sorry to hear of the troubles you had with your short block, but it is a good thing you bought it from us because we stand behind our product 100% even if you bought it some time ago I will take care of the issue. Please get the short block boxed up and shipped to us and we will take care of the lifters and the stud problem, I will pay for the shipping back to you just pay for the shipping to us and I will cover all the labor and parts to make the repairs. Thanks." I was absolutely blown away from that response!!!! It really makes me happy that I spent the extra money and had a professional builder involved with this build. I sent it off on Saturday and hopefully it won't get "f@#K@D up during shipping (UPS Ground Service  ). While I was filling out the shipping tag at the UPS Store the lady (already...within 3mins. of me arriving) flipped the box on it's side-Which I clearly labeled UP on all sides of the box with a big ass arrow point which way is up (  ). I guess we'll see what happens now  ... Andy |
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-Andy
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bugnut
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 12:50:03 pm » |
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Actually you won't believe it (well....I didn't anyways!)! I torn it down to the short block, removed the flywheel and pulley, pulled all the sump bolts out (except one that was installed from the inside and holds the pickup tube as well), and all of the case nuts (except one). At that point I noticed a problem that took place during assembly and shouldn't have happened, but for some reason it did...I won't mention what it was, but I will say that I decided (for the heck of it) to send the engine builder an email and pics of my issue (broken lifter) and of the "error" that was made during assembly of the short block. The next day I got an email that simply said: "Hello Andy, Sorry to hear of the troubles you had with your short block, but it is a good thing you bought it from us because we stand behind our product 100% even if you bought it some time ago I will take care of the issue. Please get the short block boxed up and shipped to us and we will take care of the lifters and the stud problem, I will pay for the shipping back to you just pay for the shipping to us and I will cover all the labor and parts to make the repairs. Thanks." I was absolutely blown away from that response!!!! It really makes me happy that I spent the extra money and had a professional builder involved with this build. I sent it off on Saturday and hopefully it won't get "f@#K@D up during shipping (UPS Ground Service ). While I was filling out the shipping tag at the UPS Store the lady (already...within 3mins. of me arriving) flipped the box on it's side-Which I clearly labeled UP on all sides of the box with a big ass arrow point which way is up ( ). I guess we'll see what happens now ... Andy I would really like to know what the builder's error was, as I'm preparing to build a stroker and don't want to make whatever mistake it happened to be? |
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 07:31:02 pm » |
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Don't worry, this is one of those 1 in a million type errors that happened by fluke. Clean and check everything (like usual with engine building) and if something doesn't feel right, take it apart and see why. Simple advice that has served me well with mechanical repairs on many projects. You'll do fine.  Andy |
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-Andy
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1961bluebug
Newbie
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Posts: 67
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 10:51:01 am » |
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hmm, lifter to case clearance at full lift?
Anyway props to your engine builder!
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 07:24:52 pm » |
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I'm not sure what the lifter issue is (but I did think of that lifter bore to lifter clearance too). If you were referring to my last comment with the lifter/case clearance, you're off by a mile! Props to the engine builder is right! Very professional in handling my problems (with the engine anyways!). It should arrive today to his shop...Hopefully in one piece and right-side-up... Andy |
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-Andy
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KAFUR1
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2010, 01:35:59 am » |
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Anyway props to your engine builder!
x2 mad props  that's way kool |
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youngnstudly
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 01:55:16 am » |
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I finally got my short block on the stand after getting after sending back to the engine builder (Anibal Chico). He was a stand up guy who completely backed up his product and went far out of his way to treat me "right". He found that 3 or 4 of the lifter bores were starting to oval or had already done so, so he sleeved the case for me and reassembled it all using new bearings throughout and checking everything else carefully. I am going to recheck the rocker arm geometry for the hell of it (since it's apart). I started working on the engine a week ago (I recieved it just over one and a half weeks ago) and tonight I was able to install the pistons and cylinders plus the head for the 3/4 side of the engine. I still need to clean the threads and studs for the 1/2 side and install them (I usually use a drop of loctite on them and leave them for 24 hours), plus I need to drill the "pocket" in my heads for my thermocouples to lock into for the 1/2 side . All the tin is now a gray "wrinkle finish" straight from the spray can. I got some rubber channel from work and used it on the raw edges of the breast plate (to prevent nicking the paint on the cylinder tin) but the verdict is still out as far as looks go....I'm not too fond of the "rubber look". I am planning on polishing the intakes, linkage, and air cleaners this time(which I wanted to do during the last build) but I don't know if I will have the time. So far I have only done the Scat pulley and I might leave it at that for now. Polishing isn't the funnest thing to do anyways! I am currently working on the stainless exhaust as well as a custom breather for the alternator stand. Both are more work then I anticipated but it keeps me out of trouble I guess. Hopefully in the next week the engine will be ready to go into the car. Art and Dave at ACE have my carbs ready for me too! I had them rebuilt after screwing with them endlessly and setting/resetting floats, checking this, changing that, resealing the manifolds to eliminate vacuum leaks (etc.), only to have the same issue show up with the drivers side carb....No vacuum signal through the vac. port unless the throttle was opened and the engine was at 2,000 RPM or higher. Here it sits now...  Cool modification that Chico did free of charge for me! Thanks again Chico!  Well, here is the exhaust completed! Haha, just kidding! I need the longblock finished to mock up the muffler still. I ended up TIG welding the U bend together after I requested that my very nice local muffler shop owner tried to bend my tubing into a "U" shape. He warned me that it was going to collapse since it wasn't malleable enough to do that bend...I told him "Do it anyways and I'll make the outcome work!"  I also bought a V-band clamp as suggested by Donny B.. I think it will be a slick setup once I figure it all out.  This looks a little "out of place" to me (or as my coworker puts it:"That's ghetto!") but I was pissed when I took the engine out last and scratched all my new paint up! It'll have to work for now. No show car here!  This is the head tin after I drilled it (as well as the spark plug seating surface on the head itself) for my new thermocouples. I have a Westach quad (airplane) CHT gauge and matching Westach air temp gauge to install still. Plus I want to buy the matching tach too. Installing the gauges are yet another thing I need to finish!  Andy |
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-Andy
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fiatdude
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 11:05:25 am » |
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The worst part about it was the damn CB Big Beef manifolds being so tall and "cramming up" the engine compartment! I might as well install a turbo if I want a PITA car to tune! You'd find a draw thru turbo system with a Holley carb a lot easier to work on and tune plus a whole lot more fun |
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Karman Sutra-needed to get my butt out of the ghia
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