1 piece window

[Dave3d]

Hello.
New to the forums here.

I need help on 1 thing I am doing:
I am trying to remove the vent/wing window from my 1970 bug, to install a cal-look 1 piece window kit (which I havent bought yet, and wont until I finish the paint).
I am removing everything getting ready for paint, but I cant figure out how to get the vent/wing window off (driver and passenger door vent/wing window).

I have removed all the scrapers and window tracks, the window, and all of the 10mm bolts in the door itself.

Any help would be much appreaciated.
I cant find any how-to's through google.


Dave

[Dave3d]

Hah.
Nevermind.
The top screw (inside the window track) was so gunked, I didnt see the screw.
Removed all of the gunk, saw the screw, unscrewed it, and out it came.


I  do, however, have another question.

When I last replaced my window rubber (winshield, rear, sides), I got the cal-look rubber, but they were like a 1/2 shorter than the normal rubber that has the aluminum rail thingy in it.
ie: When the windows were in, the rubber didnt cover everything the old rubber did. The old primer was showing.
As a result, the window wells started rusting badly.

Where can I get some full coverage window rubber?


Thanks again.

[roscoesvw]

West Coast Metric in Harbor City California makes really good Cal Look window rubber. Its fits nice.

[QuickKafer]

As someone with 1 piece windows, I'd highly recommend using the vent windows. The 1 piece windows suck. They don't ever fit right, they're difficult to roll up and down, and they don't offer you the volume of air that vent windows do while cruising down the road. I HATE MY 1 PIECE WINDOWS! I would never have installed them, but I had to run them since the car doors had been hacked to force me to use them. (There was no way for me to retro fit the vent windows back into the car.)

Just my experience...

Scott Faivre

[skeeter!]

Ditto on using a vent window... don't have to worry about the flexible metal check straps, you can crack the vent window for just a little ventilation, and once you've chopped out that little sill, there's no going back.

[Jason Foster]

  I use Bugpack scrapers. Added extra holes to my doors by vent window area and my scrapers clip in, no glue.  My car is a '65 so no need to switch regulators and my windows roll up and down smooth and perfect with no issues.  For me it was more about the clean look of 1 piece windows as it was just what I wanted, I like them.   Nothing wrong with vent wings either it's just all about what you want.

[Alexander_Monday]

 Added extra holes to my doors by vent window area and my scrapers clip in, no glue. 

Ditto.   I cut out some of the scraper clip in area from some old rusted out doors and welded them inside the doors I used so the scrapers would be able to clip in all the way to the front. Of course the doors were walnut hull blasted bare and I fabricated before body work or paint.  Also got replacement older style 2 sided regulators as mine is a 71 and originally had the one sided regulators.

Fab work was a pain in the a$$, but they work like a charm.

[Dave3d]

Sorry, been away for a bit.
I need to get new regulators anyway.
My windows now barely even roll up. I have to use 1 hand to pull up on the window, and the other to work the crank. Even then they barely roll up.
I am also having problems with the door locks. They lock REALLY hard (have to SLAM the door to shut them), and then, once locked, I can only open the passenger side door (and that I have to wiggle the key while pushing and letting go of the door and rinse repeate).
Both doors are pretty will jacked.
I guess I will have to replace everything, the regulaters, windows, locks, and inside/outside handles. One of the inside handles  cracked through and lost the pin on 1 side, the other is losing the pin and the hole is getting very oval.

I never should have taken the windows out.
This is getting very expensive.


@ Jason:

What are you talking about 2 regulators?
I have only seen them with 1 regulator.

[Jason Foster]

  Hey Dave,
   I reread my post not sure what you are asking about 2 regulators... I'm saying there is 1 per door which equals 2. Early cars have to switch to later regulators when installing 1 pc. windows.

  Does that help?

[Dave3d]

Sorry Jason.
that was supposed to be aimed at Alexander.

My bad.
I was asking about this:

Also got replacement older style 2 sided regulators as mine is a 71 and originally had the one sided regulators.

[Alexander_Monday]

Dave3d,

  What I was referring to was the 65? to 67 regulator as the 2 sided because it has 2 attachment points to the window carrier and the 68 and newer as the 1 sided because it only has 1.  The 2 attachment points will hold the window from slanting forward and backward and is the better for one piece windows as they loose the front vertical slot the original windows ride in.  Of course you also have to change the window carriers (I think they call it a sash?).

[Dave3d]

Ahhhh.
Ok.

I have looked into all the 1 piece window kits, and thay ALL say you have to have the 1 sided 68+ regulators to install the 1 piece kits.

How did you do 1 piece window with the 2 regulator setup?

[Alexander_Monday]

Can't remember if I had to modify the door or not to install the older regulators, and can't remember who I bought them from, but they came with the installation instructions.  That was about 10 years ago.

I also bought new sashes and they came with the rubber piece.  Can't remember exactly which glue product it was, but glued the windows into the sashes in place in the door so they would self alaign.

Gosh, "can't remember" is getting more common now that I am half a century old!

I am not endorsing this ad and know nothing about the seller, but it came up with Google and looked like a heck of a good deal on the sashes.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1049446

[Alexander_Monday]

Oh, by the way, I do remember that you CANNOT keep the stock door stop piece that recesses into the front of the door or it will hit the one piece window.  The windows came with replacement cable stops I had to install.

[Jason Foster]

 You use the 65 to 67 style regulators.

[bugnut]

As someone with 1 piece windows, I'd highly recommend using the vent windows. The 1 piece windows suck. They don't ever fit right, they're difficult to roll up and down, and they don't offer you the volume of air that vent windows do while cruising down the road. I HATE MY 1 PIECE WINDOWS! I would never have installed them, but I had to run them since the car doors had been hacked to force me to use them. (There was no way for me to retro fit the vent windows back into the car.)

Just my experience...

Scott Faivre

x2... I will NEVER own a car with one-piece door glass again, especially one that sees any kind of regular daily driver duties.  My first car had them, and they were complete garbage.

[Dave3d]

Hmmmmm.
You guys almost have me convinced to not go with 1 piece windows.


Just getting new regulators may help with my regular windows being hard to roll up then?
My vent windows are trashed though.
They are chipped, and when closed they are VERY loose (I had to put those little bars + wing nut thing to keep them closed all the way so they didnt rattle).
Also, they have like 3 layers of paint on them.
I havent ever seen a replacement kit for them, only a rubber kit.
Anyone know where to get a whole wing replacement?

[Jason Foster]

wolfsburg west has vent wing replacements, not sure if all years.  It takes work to get a set of 1 pc windows working correct.  Bottom line is what YOU want. Sounds like either way you have to strip your doors down to bare and rebuild.

  One thing with 1 pc windows it's going to be hard to have a set that seal completely and you will have to improvise some sort of solutuion for curved edges at either end.  Not a big deal to me as I don't drive my car in the rain regularly, don't even run wipers but if a daily driver this might make a problem.  All the people complaining here sound to me like they had poor installs and ill working windows. Aside from the issue of being completely water tight mine work flawlessly and I dig them and how they look, but once again to me 1 pc windows were the look I wanted and there was no question for me when I cut my doors to install them.  Do what YOU want.

[Dave3d]

Well, I have to replace EVERYTHING in the doors anyway.
The outside lock/handles.
The inside locking mechanism.
The outside locking plate.
The window regulators.
All of the felt and rubber.
I have to add shims to the driver door hinges, to make it lock properly and space properly.

I already have the doors stripped, except the locks.
The only thing salvageable are the main door windows. Everything else is broken, twisted, or just not working properly. Heck, I cant even pop up the inside door lock post things without a tremendous amount of pressure being applied.

I DO like the 1 piece window look.
I do live where it rains and snow a lot, but the bug has been garaged for almost 10 years (and will continue to be once painted).
It is a Baja though.
Will the 1 piece windows rattle a lot if going off-road?

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

Rattle? Yes they will when rolled half way. They also will like to roll up inside the car (instead of staying in the track). They generally suck and require lots of tweaking and fab work to make right. I still have them in my race car (although lexan now).
All the way up or down they are fine. but half way will rattle like crazy.
I ran 1pc windows for years and got them to work reasonable well.
However, you will never totally seal them up so it's a good idea to drill drain holes in the bottoms of the doors or they will hold water.
When I built my new street sedan, I vowed to use stock windows.. And I'm glad I did.
I found good used vent windows at a swap meet for $10. I also was able to modify some 1pc window seals to work with the vent windows. This way I can have the de-chromed look while still maintaning the stock integrety of the door.
Not to mention that driving in the summer months, it sure is nice to have the vent windows.

[Kafer_Mike]

If the finish on the wings is too trashed, you can always black them out. Not as clean as one-piece windows, but the same visual effect...

[Dave3d]

Yeah, Mike.
I could do that.
Mine are all scratched up/and/or painted, and really loose.
I would have to get all new seals, and the latch, and new vent windows too (they are chipped along the edges).

One draw of the 1 piece was also so I could actually see the side mirrors.
I have baby turbo's, but they dont work so well. They always get out of position.
I was thinking of getting some small truck mirror's, kinda like the towing windows, that have the C mount or A frame mount (and modifying to my liking), instead of the turbo's or the stock mirror.
I dont know how much clearance there is for welding a nut inside the door though, until I actually get the 1 piece installed.
Sigh.

[bugnut]

My comment was primarily out of the context of a guy that lives in Oregon, and at the time lived in one of the rainiest cities in the state.  For a daily driver in an area that's not Arizona or California-like in climate, I just can't recommend one-piece windows in good conscience.   Only offering brutal honesty here, nothing more or less. 

[Dave3d]

Yeah, I think I am going to keep the wing window, and black it out like Mike said (which looks rather nice, I must say).

I checked my passenger door out, and it doesnt have the same hole (checked the inside of the frame also, and it doesnt have the nut on the inside either) for a mirror like the driver side does. ? Must be a door from a different year?

Can anyone recomend me some good mirrors? Those baby turbo's just suck too badly to keep using.

Also, where can I find some inside door handle pull things (dont know what they are called). These are the things that you pull to get out of the car. I see the chrome and black surroundings for them online (these: http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=1256_1323&products_id=16253 ), but cannot find the handles themselves.

1970 bug.

[RPM Tim]

these http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=1256_1325&products_id=14843&osCsid=e36008cce83309cf23447ee3edbbf213 ? 

[Dave3d]

OMG.
Thanks Tim.
I was searching for door handle, not lever.
But, dangit, I want my Chrome one's, not plastic.

[skeeter!]

good luck with those, it seems like almost nobody is reproducing them in chrome anymore... check Samba or a VW show, some folks will have some good used ones around

[Dave3d]

Uggg.
I guess I can try to repair mine then.
I know there is a way to insert new pins, those rolled kinds. But, I have never done that before, and dont know if you need special tools.
I guess I can let the ovals go (where the door rod goes into), until they completelt break, see what metal is used, and weld a new part on.

But, nobody has any ideas on what to do for mirros?
I cant use the stock ones that screw into the doors.
I dont want to use any screw on aftermarket cheapies like the baby turbos (I have to fill 4 screw holes on each side as it is).
I was wondering if there is any way to use the hinge type mirror's on a '70 bug? Anyone seen that done before?
Or do the hinge holes not line up, and would take too much fab work?
Grrr.
I just want mirror's that wont fall/jiggle/move.

[Ohio Tom (DdK)]

the chrome door pulls were 67 only. A good swap meet find, but expect to pay a few bucks for them.
Last set I bought a few years ago were $20ea. Not too bad I figured. The loook bitchen too.

[Dave3d]

Ahhh.
Well, everyone keeps mentioning swap meets.
I will never go to one.
There was one in california, and I never went to it when I lived there.
And, since I moved out of cali, and live where there are NO vw shops at all, let alone swap meets, I have to rely on online purchases.

[Lew]

I am restoring my 72 to the Cal Look.  Don't want to use the one piece window.  I heard to many bad things about them.  They look great but give many problems I hear from the guys that have them.....I just got my new window scrapers and felts, etc from West Coast Metrics and someone at a recent show I attended said you have to install one of the scrapers first or you would not be able to get the second one in place.  Anyone know which scraper should go in first. 

Thanks!

[Clatter]

If you do all of the mods to make them work, 1-piece windows are just fine.

I did all of the tricks:
65-67 regulators,
More holes for scraper clips drilled in where vent wing was,

And the big one..-->
Support for the glass at both ends.
You see, the back edge of the vent wing has a felt track for the front of the window glass.
When you take away the vent, bye bye felt track.
Then, the front of the glass falls forward, and everything binds.
(And people go hating on 1-piece windows)
What you need to do is go and look at the felt tracks that are in the rear of the door.
These ones below the "B" pillar.
Get a set from another car at the junkyard, and modify them to work.
You will have to pie-cut them about an inch and a half down from the top to get them to bend with the front of the glass.
And flip them side-to-side compared to how they go in at the rear of the glass.
And make/weld in brackets to support them.
Similar brackets are going to need welded in at the bottom of the doors to run the 65-67 regulators, too, by the way..
Time spent shimming and/or bending all of these into perfect alignment is well spent.


All said and done, they work FABULOUS.

Nothing like having the whole window open to hang your arm out.
Regular stock vent wings feel claustrophobic to me,
and these cars have small front cabins as it is.
Roll down that big window, and get plenty of air...



If you get the tracks in tight, and everything set up correctly,
They do not leak AT ALL.

Too many people use a block of wood at the bottom, no front track, etc. etc.
and complain about having problems.

Unfortunately, these things are hard,
But when done right are _Sweet_.
How many things in life are like that anymore, eh??

Maybe it's just my generation,
But few things are as Cal-Look as 1-Piece Windows...

[Jason Foster]

If you do all of the mods to make them work, 1-piece windows are just fine.

I did all of the tricks:
65-67 regulators,
More holes for scraper clips drilled in where vent wing was,

And the big one..-->
Support for the glass at both ends.
You see, the back edge of the vent wing has a felt track for the front of the window glass.
When you take away the vent, bye bye felt track.
Then, the front of the glass falls forward, and everything binds.
(And people go hating on 1-piece windows)
What you need to do is go and look at the felt tracks that are in the rear of the door.
These ones below the "B" pillar.
Get a set from another car at the junkyard, and modify them to work.
You will have to pie-cut them about an inch and a half down from the top to get them to bend with the front of the glass.
And flip them side-to-side compared to how they go in at the rear of the glass.
And make/weld in brackets to support them.
Similar brackets are going to need welded in at the bottom of the doors to run the 65-67 regulators, too, by the way..
Time spent shimming and/or bending all of these into perfect alignment is well spent.


All said and done, they work FABULOUS.

Nothing like having the whole window open to hang your arm out.
Regular stock vent wings feel claustrophobic to me,
and these cars have small front cabins as it is.
Roll down that big window, and get plenty of air...



If you get the tracks in tight, and everything set up correctly,
They do not leak AT ALL.

Too many people use a block of wood at the bottom, no front track, etc. etc.
and complain about having problems.

Unfortunately, these things are hard,
But when done right are _Sweet_.
How many things in life are like that anymore, eh??

Maybe it's just my generation,
But few things are as Cal-Look as 1-Piece Windows...

  Great post.

[Dave3d]

Well, I am a welder, and a fabricator.
At least, I used to be, before I hurt my back.
I still have a welder (welded my tail lights and front/back tube bumpers on).

I was thinking about making a special track additional to the 65-67 regulators, on each side of the window, but rejected it as being way too difficult.

I was thinking of some round stock posts on either side of the main middle track, with just some 1/4 pipes welded onto the window holder track, to keep the window going straight up and not flopping to one side.
This would help with the fit in the top/sides of the window channels, and create a tighter fit.

I am just not sure my back can take all of the weird angle's I would need to be in to get it just right though.

[Just_Dave]

But, nobody has any ideas on what to do for mirros?

Here's a trick for mirrors that I learned from the samba.

Ghia mirror mounts are 2 pieces.  A bracket that screws to the door, and a chrome cap that covers the screw heads.  The only trick is that they use convertible mirrors which have a smaller diameter threaded post than the sedan mirrors. 

I haven't used them yet, but that's my game plan on my 72 that had the drivers side mirror mount shaved, and no passenger side mount (which I don't think was ever offered from the factory on sedans, only verts)